Author Topic: The Hopeless Search for Truth...  (Read 3799 times)

January 14, 2013, 08:38:37 PM

Offline guest1

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The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« on: January 14, 2013, 08:38:37 PM »
Quote from: guest1
We're hopelessly destined to look for something we shall never find, like those treasure hunters searching for the fabled Golden City somewhere in the jungles of South America. :P

I honestly doubt I will ever have any spiritual sight awakened, I am just a regular individual who sees at things from an intellectual standpoint. You folks who have that spiritual faculty are indeed lucky to have found a way onto it.

January 14, 2013, 08:39:04 PMReply #1

Offline guest1

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 08:39:04 PM »
Do not doubt yourself so, Manuel. I see more in you than you realize. If this were not the case, I wouldn't waste my time. All people are capable, and you are closer than most...

January 14, 2013, 08:39:58 PMReply #2

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 08:39:58 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Well regarding what concerns me you may be wasting your time, I do not feel that I have any innate tendency towards any spiritual faculties and my life is quite mundane. My only weapon for learning about the truth has always been my intellect. The Kolbrin says that the twice born had to go through 21 years of preparation for their initiation and then they even risked death by performing the ritual. I find it hard that a regular western person like me living a mundane existence could be anywhere near achieving any sort of Spiritual firsthand knowledge.

However I find it sad that you'd find it wasting your time to engage in conversations with us here in the group, I am certain that for all the members here, both the ones participating and the ones merely reading the exchanges, your input is very valuable. No time wasting here in my opinion from any way you look at it

January 14, 2013, 08:40:59 PMReply #3

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 08:40:59 PM »
My purpose on this group is multi-layered. One of these items is to help answer your call, and on this level, if I didn't think you were capable, I wouldn't waste my time.

Preparation for spiritual awakening and development is no longer conducted in the same manner or time frame as was done in ancient Egypt. Development methods have advanced and evolved since then. Methods utilized today are specifically geared towards those living a "regular, mundane" existence.

There are things that remain the same, however: unwavering desire, commitment, harsh metaphysical tests even before formal training, etc. In other words, it is entirely up to you. To those who knock, the door will be opened.

March 15, 2013, 10:55:10 PMReply #4

Offline guest1

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 10:55:10 PM »
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We're hopelessly destined to look for something we shall never find, like those treasure hunters searching for the fabled Golden City somewhere in the jungles of South America. :P
I find it interesting that you have come to such a conclusion Manuel.  Are you able to elaborate on how you came to this?

Quote from: guest1
I honestly doubt I will ever have any spiritual sight awakened, I am just a regular individual who sees at things from an intellectual standpoint. You folks who have that spiritual faculty are indeed lucky to have found a way onto it.
Another interesting conclusion, Manuel.  If possible, could you please elaborate on how you have apparently come to a conclusion that intellectual pursuits/standpoints are divorced from the awakening of "spiritual sight"? [My emphasis here.]

You state:
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You folks who have that spiritual faculty are indeed lucky to have found a way onto it.
It is my opinion we are all spiritual beings at a particular level reflecting our current requirements and needs.  Having followed some of your writings from time to time, I find your comment on your own spirituality at odds (even contradictory) with what you say in your various writings.  Are you willing to elaborate how you have reached such conclusions/beliefs?  If not, all good.

For myself, I have always liked the concept of Truth being similar (metaphorically) to that of a multi-faceted crystal/jewel/whatever.  The Truth of something is there, but it can readily be viewed from a variety of angles and perspectives, thus giving the viewer(s) merely a glimpse of something greater.  That glimpse, of course, would be tantamount to individual perspectives as dictated by individual experiences, beliefs, customs, viewpoints on/about life, etc.  These things would colour a Truth from an individual's viewpoint, but it certainly would have no effect on Truth other than perhaps via the medium of interpretation and the person's ability to understand at any particular point in time.

I personally believe the search for Truth to be extremely worthwhile and very fulfilling in all its manifestations.

March 16, 2013, 05:33:57 PMReply #5

Offline guest1

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 05:33:57 PM »
Well Lance, based on my own experience, I can only judge things from an intellectual standpoint. For example, many metaphysical theories I've come to learn during my life have all come from reading them from different texts. This is all knowledge that I've absorbed from third parties, I couldn't corroborate any of it to someone based on my own experience and even if I could, how do I know my experiences were completely real? It's a difficult task to find the truth in the realms of illusion.

April 29, 2013, 01:22:01 AMReply #6

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 01:22:01 AM »
Hi Manuel.  I didn't realise how long it had been since last visiting this forum.

You raise some pretty cool points here Manuel... 

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based on my own experience, I can only judge things from an intellectual standpoint. 

One of the things I have personally learned about people is that we never really judge things from a purely intellectual standpoint - well, not a standardised concept of intellectuality, anyway...  I have to ask here: "what makes up your intellect?"  I can guarantee that it is not merely what you have learned through books and teachers (no matter who these teachers may be or have been) that your intellect has formed.

You state:
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many metaphysical theories I've come to learn during my life have all come from reading them from different texts. This is all knowledge that I've absorbed from third parties,
  What you say may well indeed be true, but what about your understanding of these metaphysical theories?  Has that come from books?  Or from some other source?  And what about your mind?  I know you are so very aware of the magnificence of the human mind (in particular, your own), and knowing something about the mind, I am also sure you comprehend how the mind collates every bit of information it receives for later use.

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I couldn't corroborate any of it to someone based on my own experience
  If this is truly the case, then whose experience would you corroborate?  If it is through someone elses experience(s) then the only corroboration you could hope to achieve is by repeating what you had read or heard, so basically you would be reiterating things and not corroborating anything. 

Then,
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and even if I could, how do I know my experiences were completely real?
  I would have to ask here: "Did your experiences feel real to you?"  If so, then they are real for you.  You can only validate the reality of things only as they relate to you and your reality.  Another thing to look at here is how you view reality.  This is a major, and something only you can answer.

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It's a difficult task to find the truth in the realms of illusion.
  How very true.  But is this really what we are suppose to be doing?  Are we supposed to be concentrating on the Truth?  Or are we supposed to explore the myriad pathways towards the ultimate Truths and not to be overly concerned about what Truth is supposed to look like?

May 04, 2013, 06:03:08 PMReply #7

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 06:03:08 PM »
It has taken me a while to be able to reply to this Lance, you threw a lot at me all at the same time, but don't think I haven't been wanting to get to it :)


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One of the things I have personally learned about people is that we never really judge things from a purely intellectual standpoint - well, not a standardised concept of intellectuality, anyway...  I have to ask here: "what makes up your intellect?"  I can guarantee that it is not merely what you have learned through books and teachers (no matter who these teachers may be or have been) that your intellect has formed.

Well regarding this subject we'd have to speculate. If you're insinuating that the intellect has a link to the soul then we'd first have to establish the existence of the soul in an empirical way, which we can't as of yet, so we remain at the same place we started from.

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  What you say may well indeed be true, but what about your understanding of these metaphysical theories?  Has that come from books?  Or from some other source?  And what about your mind?  I know you are so very aware of the magnificence of the human mind (in particular, your own), and knowing something about the mind, I am also sure you comprehend how the mind collates every bit of information it receives for later use

Surely true wisdom must be derived from experience, but the experience that creates true wisdom is not any mundane experience, or else everyone would be wise in spiritual matters. These things come from experiences which are out of the ordinary, thus why secret societies conserve all those very ancient traditions that are supposed to take the individual into a transcendental state of mind.

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I would have to ask here: "Did your experiences feel real to you?"  If so, then they are real for you.  You can only validate the reality of things only as they relate to you and your reality.  Another thing to look at here is how you view reality.  This is a major, and something only you can answer.

Well regarding slightly out of the ordinary happenings  I must say that they tend to lose their sense of reality as time passes.

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  How very true.  But is this really what we are suppose to be doing?  Are we supposed to be concentrating on the Truth?  Or are we supposed to explore the myriad pathways towards the ultimate Truths and not to be overly concerned about what Truth is supposed to look like?

I'd say that if there is a way to know the truth, at least partly, in this realm of matter, then all our efforts should be directed towards it. But then there's so many people offering paths to know the truth personally and many of them are snake oil salesman. It's hard to know which path to take and more when these things are said to take even a whole lifetime to attain.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 06:09:30 PM by Manu »

May 19, 2013, 08:59:45 PMReply #8

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Re: The Hopeless Search for Truth...
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2013, 08:59:45 PM »
Sorry about the delay here Manuel.  Finally found this thread again...  Thought I'd lost it...

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Well regarding this subject we'd have to speculate. If you're insinuating that the intellect has a link to the soul then we'd first have to establish the existence of the soul in an empirical way, which we can't as of yet, so we remain at the same place we started from.

It wasn't so much the concept of a Soul I was alluding to here, more the fact we need to include the information gathered by all senses in order to create and maintain our own belief systems and how our conscious and intellectual mind copes with and manifests what we see.

As for the Soul, well, unlike empirical scientists and their methodologies, I do have my own evidence of its existence, and that works fine for me.  However, this is not something I can demonstrate effectively even with our current level of technological development.  I believe this sort of thing must remain shrouded for the time being.

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Surely true wisdom must be derived from experience, but the experience that creates true wisdom is not any mundane experience, or else everyone would be wise in spiritual matters. These things come from experiences which are out of the ordinary, thus why secret societies conserve all those very ancient traditions that are supposed to take the individual into a transcendental state of mind.

I agree that wisdom must be derived from experience, though I would go further and say that in order to gain any form of wisdom, experience and knowledge are essential.  I will go even further and state that until the recipient is ready, wisdom remains elusive because the build up of knowledge and experience has not reached its crescendo.

I do not believe that wisdom lies solely in the domain of spirituality (or religion for those so inclined) either.  There is wisdom in giving a rattle snake a wide birth if you happen to stumble across one - nothing to do with spirituality but a lot to do with physical survival.  There is wisdom in the knowledge a cobweb can help stem the flow of blood, and how to apply that cobweb.  There are countless other examples, but I'm sure you get the idea.  There is much wisdom housed within the seeming mundane as there is in the realms of spirituality.  Could metaphysics be a way of bridging the two?

As for secret societies; I know a number based more on fear and/or material wealth than any form of wisdom.

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Well regarding slightly out of the ordinary happenings  I must say that they tend to lose their sense of reality as time passes.

True, as supplemental evidence will undoubtedly come into being the further away from the incident/event you get in time.  No matter how one may eventually interpret what may or may not have happened in the past, it is important to note that at the time of the happening, it was very real.  I know of many who have had shared experiences (seemingly unexplainable) and, over time, have completely rejected the experience as being an illusion or, for others, having never happened in the first place.  This does not make the experience any less real at the time it was experienced.

The conscious mind is a wonderful thing, but is also a master illusionist.  With our conscious mind we can make whatever we want to be real or ephemeral.  We choose.  However, the choices need not necessarily be our own, as we are often very easily swayed by others thoughts and beliefs.

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I'd say that if there is a way to know the truth, at least partly, in this realm of matter, then all our efforts should be directed towards it. But then there's so many people offering paths to know the truth personally and many of them are snake oil salesman. It's hard to know which path to take and more when these things are said to take even a whole lifetime to attain.

I suppose it really depends upon what sort of Truth people are looking for.  If we are looking for particular Truths in the material universe, then we will, in time, perhaps, find them.  If we are looking for Truths of a spiritual or religious nature then, too, with time, we may find them.

You will always find those 'snake oil salesmen and women, for they love preying on the unwary and weak.  But even they serve a purpose by providing their victims with a way to overcome their traps.  For instance, most people (sadly, not all) adhere to the old saying, "once bitten, twice shy", so without the snake oil salesmen being there, their victims would never have an opportunity to appreciate what they have nor a growing understanding of a better way of procurement.  There are always those who have a greater knowing and understanding to these salesmen, but it is our job, individually, to seek these others out.  For once we start that journey, we soon realise these others have always been there, ready and waiting until we, ourselves, become ready.

As for the knowledge or understanding of Truth taking a lifetime?  Well, that may be so for the person expounding that statement.  It does not have to be true for you.

There are as many different paths as there are ideas when it comes to spiritual wisdom, growth, and development.  My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you go with your heart (not the physical one, but the spiritual one - the Soul), for no matter how that path may pan out, the experiences you will receive will add much to your own collective wisdom.