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History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on October 02, 2021, 03:14:57 AM »
Interesting, in one of the Maori Legends, there is one about a Bird woman, i wonder if she was related to thoth?

Hatupatu and Kurungaituku
the Birdwoman

History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on August 19, 2021, 04:41:40 PM »
History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on July 20, 2021, 09:32:44 AM »
Fascinating watch, and deeper insight

History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on July 18, 2021, 09:18:11 PM »
Interesting information, the death of the swamp lands, and the loss of them, reminds me of a place mentioned in the kolbrin, also the attributes of one's mauri (energy life force), and its unseen presence, this info reminds me, the song of the snow, the song of the stars, the song of the tides, the song of the lakes, etc etc. And the amount of information within each basket section.

Good question, how do you restore something you can't see?

Kolbrin/Kailedy / Re: The Cross
« Last post by guest1 on July 10, 2021, 09:34:49 PM »
World Events and News / Re: Earth News
« Last post by guest1 on June 27, 2021, 06:28:11 PM »

Interesting about the elephants.

History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on June 27, 2021, 05:17:05 PM »
History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on June 20, 2021, 05:32:29 PM »
Happy Maori Luna new year lol

Ancient Maori Star Knowledge (I was reminded of the Egyptian boat of the dead, in regards to Matariki (orion constellation)

History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Taoism and the 'Sons of Reflected Light'
« Last post by guest1 on April 01, 2021, 04:16:40 PM »
Although they do not specifically mention the Sons of Reflected Light I have found several videos on Youtube which put forward a similar theory: that the Chinese and also many other cultures were taught the arts and crafts by strangers from a distant land or in this case possible survivors of Atlantis. This would certainly match the dates at the end of the last Ice Age around twelve thousdna years ago when society was in upheaval and floods and sea level changes had drastically changed the coastlines and land masses.


The rest of the documentary:

This is a remarkable series', I highly recommend people watch this, a lot of research and information in there, sure helped me see the bigger picture.   Thank you for sharing :)
History: Modern & Ancient / Re: Maori Tradition
« Last post by guest1 on November 17, 2020, 03:24:55 PM »
Hi Lance, its possible :)

There is a Definite Megalithic Track across the Old World from the Atlantic to the Pacific

This Track passes from Japan over Micronesia and — Polynesia to the American Coast

(8) Thereafter the megalithic route across the Pacific is broken and incontinuous. Not till Samoa is reached, away to the south-east, do we pick it up again, for between lay the coral groups of the Marshalls and the Gilberts, the islands of which have not the permanence of volcanic structure, but are the work of the coral insect, at the mercy of storm and billow. The Fale-o-le-fee, or House of the Fairy, behind Apia, is an ellipse of giant stone columns, no mean rival of our Stonehenge. In the Tongan group, to the south of Samoa, we have again the size and the permanency of ancient land, and here we have the gigantic truncated pyramids which are called the tombs of the Tui-Tongas, and the colossal trilithon or gateway composed of three giant stones. It is useless seeking for such ancient structures in the low coral groups like the Paumotas and the Austral Archipelago.

(9) The track is again resumed away to the east in Huahine, one of the Society group, where a dolmen or colossal stone altar exists, and in Tahiti a gigantic truncated pyramid. To the north-west, in Hawaii, are the huge temples of Waikiki and Punepa, whilst to the south and south-east we have the minute Rapa, Pitcairn, and Easter Islands, lying in somewhat the same latitude, 27 to 28 south of the Equator, the two page 5former separated by more than a thousand miles of ocean, the two latter by some fifteen hundred miles; and in each of them there are unmortared stone monuments. To complete the megalithic story of the Pacific, we have two specimens of this ancient type of stone structure in the North Island of New Zealand, one a miniature Stonehenge, with huge blocks standing six or seven feet above the ground, at Kerikeri, in the Bay of Islands, and another near Ateamuri, to the north of Taupo, consisting of fifty great stones set erect in the earth.

Clear Evidence of a Fair Race having been Absorbed
by the Polynesians

(12) But it is in Polynesia proper that most evidences of a primeval fair race have been gathered. Taken as a whole the islanders of this region have a singularly European appearance. What struck all the early voyagers was the fine faces and regular features of most of the islanders, and some of them broke into raptures over the beauty of the women and the stalwart grace of the men. They constitute one of the tallest races in the world. Their hair is generally abundant, and generally wavy, never kinky, like the hair of the negroids, and never rank and coarse, like that of the mongoloids and they can unlike these two divisions of page 32mankind, have, if they wish, plenty of hair on the face. The colour of it is generally dark, and amongst many of them a certain proportion of the children have brown hair, which changes into black only at full maturity. The complexion is, as a rule, brown, but it is very often olive, and no darker than that of the Southern Italians; and colour is as much a matter of climate and food as of race. Dr. Hamy, the French anthropologist, finds from new measurements that "in the east, north, and south they present a long-headedness very pronounced." Other observers incline to place them amongst the medium-headed men, neither very round nor very long. But the skulls that the Americans took out of the burial platforms of Easter Island are in appearance decidedly long.

(13) There are even cases of a cross with a blonde Caucasian race amongst the Maoris, and especially amongst the Ureweras, who have seen little of Europeans till lately; the urukehu, or red-headed, families and individuals are not infrequent, and the red-head is generally accepted as an indication of a cross between a blonde and brunette race, whilst it is acknowledged that this tribe, not long after arriving in the Matatua canoe, passed inland to the highlands round Lake Waikaremoana, and, struggling with the inhabitants of the mountain and forest land, ultimately amalgamated with them. In that other long-isolated district, the King Country, near the harbour of Kawhia, there are many of these rufous people, and, at the same time, the tribes there speak of their ancestors, the immigrants of the Tainui canoe, amalgamating with the aboriginals, the Ngatimokotorea. And they say that in the fore part of the Tainui a fairy woman called Te Peri had command. The aboriginals of the Ureweras are called by them the Toi; and Mr. Elsdon Best quotes a Maori description of this primitive people as peaceful and good, a contrast to the restless warriors that had come in amongst them from Polynesia.

The Fairy Peoples of Maori Legend are all European-
like, and in all Countries Fairies are the Defeated

(14) A significant substitution by the Ureweras, when the urukehu are mentioned, is the word Turehu, which is used by the Maoris as almost interchangeable with Patupaiarehe in the sense of a fairy or beneficent supernatural being. The Turehu are also represented as an aboriginal people absorbed by the Polynesian immigrants forty generations, or about a thousand years, ago. They had come, according to White's "Ancient History of the Maori," "from the other side of the ocean," and conquered the Tutu-mai-ao, who had before them conquered the Kui, the people that got the land from Maui, when he fished it out of the sea.
Good read, i am a descendant of the Urewera aboriginies spoken of in your quote.Today my tribe is known as Tuhoe who are a mix of the Ancestors of Mataatua, a waka of the great migration, and Nga Potiki the Aboriginies of the Urewera(as well as other aboriginie tribes ie Te Hapuoneone, Te Tini o Toi)Whose origins I shall go into a little more.

Before we move on it should be stated  Nga Potiki(aboriginies)were not migrants from distance lands like those of the great migration, but were instead born in New Zealand from a union between two gods namely Te Maunga and Hinepukohurangi.From what I know the pakeha authors of the story I give were sometimes given false information as not to confuse his undeveloped mind of the tall tales told by natives.The story I give is the beginning of the urewera Aboriginies as told by my tipuna and recorded by Elsdon Best.(note Tutakangahau described in the link below is my 3xgreat grandfather who is pictured wearing the korowai)

In times long past away, when men held strange powers, and godlike beings dwelt on earth, there lived one Hine-pukohu-rangi. She was the personification of mist and fog. Hine-pukohu-rangi is said to have lured Te Maunga (the Mountain range) to earth at a place called Onini, which is on the line of road from Galatea to Waikare-moana, at Ruatahuna, on the left bank of the Mana-o-rongo stream, and opposite Te Kau-tawhero and Māna-tēpā. A clump of New Zealand flax, looked upon as being tapu, formerly marked the spot where Te Maunga came to earth.

From the union of the Mountain and the Mist Maiden sprang Potiki the First, who appears to have been an ordinary specimen of the genus homo, and from whom descended the tribe known as Nga-Potiki. Such is the origin of this people who have held the rugged forest wilds of Tuhoeland for many generations. They are the offspring of supernatural beings, of personifications of nature, sayeth the Maori. They have sprung from their own savage ranges, and from the white fog clouds which envelop them. They are begotten of Mother Nature. They are the Children of the Mist.

Next I give you the geneoalogy of the atua Hinepukohurangi mother of the Urewera aboriginie.The names in the top left hand corner are of most importance and should be taken note of as they include Hinepukohurangi and her famed ancestors.

Counting generations back from Potiki(human child of Hinepukohurangi) in the geneoalogy above we only have 12 ancestors.Now trying to explain the union of atua creating humans to a non maori is testing enough, having to explain that 12 generations before Potiki(Primary human ancestor of Nga Potiki) we start dealing with a primal parent of this universe in Ranginui is flat out insane.This is the same Ranginui who begat Tane, Tangaroa Tawhirimatea.The enormity in trying to grasp the concept of Nga Potiki and its spiritual origins and geneaology is expressed in the writings of author Elsdon Best.

Nga Potiki were of a peaceful nature although records of war were recorded.Hence there inability to thwart off attacks made by the migrants of Haiwaiiki, namely the Mataatua people whom the Nga Potiki went onto amalgamate with.It should be noted that unlike many of the other Aboriginies of New Zealand, Nga Potiki were not pushed to the brink of extinction, nor were they killed in great numbers.Instead the Mataatua migrant chose to marry the aboriginies, and to this day the majority of Nga Potiki aboriginie hapu and marae still exist with geneoalogy customs still intact and taught to children of learning age through song, geneaolgy geography etc.Infact one could show you the exact resting place of Te Maunga where he was lured to from heaven by the beauty of Hinepukohurangi.A simple drive is all thats needed to find this piece of history.

The importance of the Nga Potiki Aboriginie taught to their descendants lies in the story of Maui and his fish.The ancestral mountain of Nga Potiki(Tuhoe as there known today)Maungapohatu lies directly on the heart of the great fish, rendering the old aboriginies the kaitiaki of the heart of Te ika a Maui.Further teachings to our people explain that the fish of Maui can still exist if the head of the fish(Wellington)were to be destroyed, the same goes for Te hiku o te Ika(the tail, Far North)if destroyed the islands continue to exist.But if Te Manawa o Te Ika(The Heart, Maungapohatu)were for some reason destroyed, Aotearoa as we know it would cease to exist.

After reading the pakeha author and his opening statements about Nga Potiki in the link above, one would believe the descendants have no real sense or ideas of there history.Yet Elsdon Best goes onto write enough information about Nga Potiki to keep the reader studying its contents years of research to comb through.

Next I want to touch on the statement made by you on the fair haired people in your quote, not only did they exist there decsendants to this day are still walking around and are STILL clearly defined by their fine features and coloured hair.Separating them from others within our iwi is easily done through whakapapa and there affiliation with specific hapu who are mentioned in stories from pre european settlement as those of urukehu origin.The stories I mention clearly define a fair skinned people of coloured hair who partook in the normal activities of everyday life days of old.In fact my kuia resembled that of a urukehu, described by my ancestors to the nosey authors of the 19th century, whos geneaology can be traced back to the mythological natives.She being one of many I know to have inherited the finer features and coloured hair described in old tales told by my ancestors.Evidence of the existance of urukehu within my iwi can be found in the link below.

Take note of Matangaua described as urukehu(in above link)being of Ngai Te Riu hapu belonging to the Iwi Nga Potiki.The tribe whose origin isnt that of the migrants of Aotearoa, but whos origin was born in Aotearoa of divine pro creation as explained at the beginning of this korero.If one wishs to study the urukehu of Ngai Te Riu he would only have to visit one of the many marae belonging to Ngai Te Riu in my ancestral land.There he would see for himself living ancestors of the urukehu with described features on full display.It must be noted that Ngai Te Riu was a Aboriginie hapu of Nga Potiki which means its beginning is of pre migration times.Note I am of the Ngai Te Riu line through my kuia who I mentioned above.

Also the links I have left are accounts of stories told by my ancestors to pakeha authors, whom I am told by my elders were never fully trusted with the teachings of my people.If one wished to fully grasp our history hed have to immerse himself deep into everyday life of tuhoe culture.For the countless books left behind by pakeha merely scratch the surface of lore taught from the beginning of time.Although most of the information Ive read pertaining to my iwi is true, a lot of whakapapa is misplaced, place names and events mixed which is why such information from these books should be used as a guide.

After reading your history of aboriginie people and such I thought it be a good idea to share my history of my iwi and its aboriginie history.What intrigued me were your descriptions of urukehu being that of a myth, where in my hapu that knowledge flows through our veins taught to us with whakapapa from our ancestors, coupled with descendants who to this day still display the foreign features of those described in myth and legend.

Also i sensed a hint of disdain(maybe unintentional)for those of the great migration as the cause of lost history customs  and culture of the placid Aboriginies.Luckily for the aboriginie of Aotearoa we were blessed with the might of the warriors of Hawaiiki.For without them I fear the placid nature of our aboriginies would have easily been overthrown and overtaken by the european settler and his musket as was the fate of the placid aboriginie of Australia.The resistance shown by our Hawaiiki line is the reason we still have our marae, our language, and our culture.The Treaty that united the Natives and The Crown(as useless as it seems to be)as we know it would be non existent, as would this conversation and any information pertaining to it.
The current knowledge of Waitaha or Nga Potiki history would have surely been but a memory of those gone before.

Id like to discuss further as Ive barely scratched the surface of this korero.When dealing with history I see its primary function as a key to answer questions of the future.

Kia ora e hoa

The disdain you sensed was from the author of the quotes lol,  I whole hardheartedly agree, the  deeper we can connect to our roots and identify them, the more water one can access....your post there was like a bell for me, a conformation. At the time of this i also meet an other person who's whakapapa, went back to Persia.

On my Dads side Te rarawa up north (Tail of the Fish) we have a similar history, with amalgamated tribes, i think one of them is connected to your area, where kin to the ones that algamated with us?. I did have a few moments of jealousy lol, as you have obviously been brought up within your tribe and customs since early age, and have a firm understanding and foundation in which to work from, where i was not brought up within the culture to such a degree.  I also agree about the treaty, as i see it, it puts us in a unique opportunity, it connects the old world with the new, the new law, with the old lore. By the treaty with the crown that lore is protected, tikanga etc. Looking forward to hearing your insights on this subject

Nga mihi

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