Started by Len, December 13, 2013, 01:19:49 PM
Quote from: ManuI'd say the fallacy in your logic is to think that existence only depends on space and time being "real". What about consciousness? as long as something is conscious, wouldn't it be true that it exists?
Quote from: Luminuous Epinoia'Consciousness' 'exists'? where does this 'consciousness' exists? and the size? and when? how can it 'exists' if it can not be measured in terms of time & space? aside by saying that it is just an illusion, a mirage, a dream?@leonard: i think you should do a lot of homework here with modern physics & perhaps quantum physics. i'm done with you.is it then 'real'? or unreal?
Quote from: ManuThat's the point actually, that there are things which exist beyond space of time. Space of time as the only valid measurement of existence would be erroneous then wouldn't it? Maybe that premise of yours could be wrong, although I am not trying to be empirical here.
Quote from: ManuPerhaps consciousness is a type of energy not yet discovered by science, you must remember science is in an ever constant state of improvement and it's not at any point wholly complete.
Quote from: Luminuous EpinoiaAnd yours could not be wrong? again your reference is theoloogical bias, you are speaking of sth that can not be measured... so what are talking abbout here?
Quote from: ManuOf course it could be wrong, I am not trying to make absolute statements here. I don't claim that kind of transcendental wisdom myself
Quote from: Luminuous EpinoiaEverything exists yet it does NOT truly exists. It only exists as a mirage or an illusion. this is just scientific Truth.it can not truly exists since time & space itself is just an illusion so everything exists only in terms of concepts / abstraction.again its nature its Constant Change so no single phenomenon can be truly defined rather than as a temporary concepts/abstractions.
Quote from: ManuRegarding consciousness I shall myself await for further scientific development in that regard to make my conclusions. I am not so convinced consciousness is so "unreal".
Quote from: Luminuous EpinoiaConsciousness is real yet it is also 'unreal' in terms that it can not truly be measured / quantized in definite terms.
Quote from: ManuWell at least YET. There were many things we couldn't measure 100 years ago that we can measure now
Quote from: Luminuous EpinoiaIt is also everchanging so it has no such a thing as an identity / permanent characteristics except for change itself. it is even beyond time & space. so how can you say that it truly 'exists'? we think we can actually... you've read about Quantum Physics haven't you? at first they thought that energy can be quantized into quantas yet each quantum itself turns out to be divisible just like particles
Quote from: ManuLen had a point just now, which is that if these intangible things are not real but illusory then even our own thoughts are not real, and if they are unreal then what kind of actual weight do they have? Maybe if your presuppositions are correct, we're taking ourselves too seriously