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Specialized Areas of Interest => Theology => Topic started by: Len on January 14, 2013, 12:28:44 PM

Title: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
Quote from: guest1
The whole true purpose of living is to escape this world, isn't it interesting?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 12:31:34 PM
Quote from: guest1
which is the essence of Gnosticism; an anti-cosmic Soteriology!

Just like what happened to gnosticism in the hands of the Romans, Buddhism was also turned upside-down when it came into the hands of the Chinese, the typical Creationist / theistic notions.

In China they even mistakenly think that the Awakened One taught Kung-fu to them! And in Japan, the samurai arts!

At least by making the World see the Truth, hopefully we can make it a better place for everyone. A compassionate & reasonable society and a more sustainable environment to live in.

Even in this modern age "The Blind Ones" always refuse to behave responsibly because they always ascribe everything to "God" & "Satan", never realizing that in all actuality they themselves with their wrong views (Ignorance/Agnoia/Avidya) are the real menace to one another. There is nothing sacred about greed, hatred & ignorance, these 3 unwholesome roots are mistakenly thought by them as "Divine Providence".

I just can't seem to understand their errant prehistoric dispositions, why would they go to school if they refuse science, logic & reasoning?
If Christ were to come again among us into this world to enlighten them, i'll bet they'd be the first to nail Him on the cross again just like they did many times before... and replace His gospels, turning it into some other santa claus religions.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 12:32:59 PM
(Posted on the Kolbrin Facebook page originally.)

 I’ve been lurking on this page since it has been created, and Manuel’s statement that the true purpose of living is to escape the world has prompted me to join the group and respond.

The Gnostics, Buddhists, and a select few sects of Hinduism see the world as a place of darkness, evil, ignorance, and suffering which must be transcended in order to ‘escape’ these horrors.

The Culdian view, which is clearly evident in our publications (I am a Culdian), including the Kolbrin, is that the world is akin to a school. It is a place of instruction, success and failure, joy and sorrow, wisdom and ignorance. The purpose of school is not to escape school, but to fully embrace the experience of growth and learning before we graduate.

One can hate and suffer through school counting the days until its end, or affirm the experience, live in the present, and make this trip more about the journey than the destination. One may get through school with an eye only towards post graduation, but this only compounds any suffering already experienced and makes it all the more likely you will fail and have to repeat certain classes.

Although many other philosophical, theological, and metaphysical ideas are the same, a positive and balanced affirmation of life and physical existence is what separates Culdian philosophy from the negative, unbalanced rejection of physical existence so prevalent in much of Gnosticism, Buddhism, and splinter sects of other faiths.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: guest1
Thanks for participating Leonard, it's nice to have a Culdian around here sharing some perspectives.
As much as I love the Kolbrin (and you guys know that by now for sure) I must admit sometimes I find the philosophy a bit too idealistic. It is indeed great to empower oneself to go through the harshest life experiences. When I first found the Kolbrin it gave me a lot of strength to change my life 180º and the results were absolutely undeniable. But with time I started having problem believing certain things, or most precisely to be able to embrace them in a convincing manner.
Nowadays while I still recall certain passages from time to time and re read them I am much more skeptical of everything and as you correctly stated this way of experiencing life makes everything a bit more tortuous. Some days I wish I could go back to that idealism I had when I first discovered the Kolbrin, but the Gnostic philosophy does possess a lot of appeal.
Sometimes the Kolbrin's explanations for certain things seem to be a bit too simplistic. It's even told in the Kolbrin that this is the book of the lesser secrets, it seems like we're left out of a lot of details and thus other metaphysical currents like Gnosticism gain appeal by revealing more indepth details about the mysteries. Also witnessing the state of our world pessimism and stoicism begin making a lot more sense than believing that we're fighting this glorious battle to achieve godhood.
Yet anyone who reads the Kolbrin thoroughly can't fail to admire the gems it contains, and if you embrace its tenets I can assure anybody that it grants almost magical faculties. I wouldn't be the person I am today if it wasn't for this book, even when nowadays I couldn't honestly tell someone the things the Kolbrin teaches with a straight face. There's no way I could provide hard evidence for any of it.

" What is the destined fate of a man who knows the existence of things beyond his understanding? I see but I do not know, therefore I am afraid. Man can swim against the current towards the bank, but he needs a helping hand to pull him ashore when he is exhausted from the struggle.

This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled."
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 12:37:51 PM
Can you provide hard evidence for the Gnostic Mysteries? Can Christians provide hard evidence of the miracles of Jesus, or even that he actually lived? If you, Manuel, experience a transcendent experience of God and all the Mysteries, can you provide us hard evidence of the fact? Or would you be ashamed to speak of the fact?

For myself, I esteem the Higher Powers and my most transcendent experiences with too much respect to have them misunderstood or ridiculed by those without even the interest to understand such things. These things are private, and shared only with others who know or whom have the deepest yearning to know. And returning to the school analogy, one does not teach 9th grade lessons to a 4th grade student. The reasons should be obvious.

There is much in the world that cannot (may not is the better term) be proved or found on Google. Living, working Mysteries exist to this day, privately (sometimes TOO much so) reserved for those that are spiritually and emotionally ready and will give the experience the respect it deserves.

Mind this as well, the Mysteries you are reading that were EXPERIENCED in ancient Gnosticism were never made public by them. They were not for the profane, and had you lived then you would have not read, heard, nor experienced them unless you were an initiate. And if you had, your ‘normal’ peers would have told you these Mysteries were the delusions of mad men. It is only now because they are ‘ancients’ that they have any modern respectability at all. Perhaps this is why this group and others’ so greatly love the Kolbrin, but dismiss out of hand Gwineva because it is channeled in modern times even though the quality of spiritual, metaphysical ideas parallels the quality of the Kolbrin. Is the Kolbrin only of value because of its age, and less so if one cannot prove it? Is Gwineva of little value because it is modern or channeled? Do you imagine the only ones with transcendent awareness or experience were ancients, or that their ‘channeling’ (what do you think this word really means?) was more valid?

Idealism? Perhaps…it is only a simple yet deep understanding of where we are in our cycle of growth. Growing pains still suck, and they are not fun but are easy enough to recognize with the right amount of focus and patience. Sometimes the momentary pain in ourselves and the world is compelling enough to forget the bigger picture momentarily as we resort to a stoic pessimism, but only just as long as the pain lasts or until the lesson is learned…and the pain does last until the lesson is learned…individually or collectively.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 12:56:21 PM
Quote from: guest1
I must clarify that I don't consider myself a Gnostic, I have studied certain Gnostic texts and found them of much interest; but my point regarding it was merely to contrast it with the more straightforward texts in the Kolbrin and how the fact that the Gnostic texts presume to reveal more indepth aspects of the mysteries and the apparent state of our existence can lead people into adopting/trusting its views instead. There are so many currents of alleged ancient knowledge out there yet without actual personal experience of the mysteries it all becomes a sort of entertainment or pastime as the seeker always stumbles upon the same dead end road.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: guest1
Wrathful Emanation of the Perfect Ones decapitating Brahma the Creator. :

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/img_2280-copy3.jpg

“The central main hands of the deity hold a chopping-knife (karttrka) and human skull-bowl (kapala), colored gold and ornamented by pearl chains, flammiforms and scepters (vajra). The lower main hands hold a magical knife (purba) and the severed multi-faced head of Brahma the Creator. The upper main hands hold a red right hand holding an arrow and an elaborately decorated golden shield with a Chinese-style makara or dragon face at the center. The other hands hold a ritual scepter (vajra), lance, axe, double-drum (damaru), Wheel of Law (dharmachakra), dagger, swirling flames, ritual bell (ghanta), skeleton-staff (khatvanga), banner, a red human right foot, a transfixed corpse, various magical knives and stakes, a noose, a skin, and other Tantric weapons.”

"The Thunder Perfect Mind", the name of one gnotic text in the NHL is actually a technical (tantric) buddhist term, the adamantine vehicle of the Awakened One.

In one one these "forbidden" gospels (i think it was Philip), there is a story about how Yaldabaoth the OT Creator God being slain by one of these "wrathful deity" / "fiery angel" and cast down to Tartaros

According to (tantric) Buddhism, the sensation of attaining an Awakened Mind is like flashes of Thunder. At this stage, conditional reality will no longer have any meaning. When one has attained mastery over all phenomena, one is freed from the wicked bonds of pain, death & rebirth (in the lower realms) which amounts to suffering.

"Reality is merely an ILLUSION..."
- The gnostic Christ, the Buddha, Albert Einstein.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:40:56 PM
After these examples with so much colorful, violent metaphors, it should be no wonder that so many of these types of esoteric groups devolve into practices of blood rites, human sacrifice, self flagellation, and other physically unhealthy austerities. That, combined with a peculiar brand of life hating nihilism may certainly be considered a major, but subtle, underlying cause for the intensification of darkness and suffering in the world.

"Most PERCEPTIONS of Reality are merely an Illusion." -- Leonard the Culdian
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:41:53 PM
Quote from: guest1
"There are few, even among truly enlightened men, who are able to conceive My true nature, and these know that I am even above unchangeability in manifestation. I can think of Myself as some other and forthwith that other comes into being. There are those among men who declare all life, all My creation to be an illusion of the senses, a dream without sustenance. They are in error, for all that is real and all that exists was ever latent, awaiting the awakening kiss. Because men cannot know reality as it actually is but only as they can conceive it to be with their deceptive sense, does not make it any less real. If all men were blind, the stars would still exist".
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:44:20 PM
Quote from: guest1
Regarding the nature of reality, it seems to me like a persistent dream, the building blocks of matter are made of nothing yet they create a whole tangible universe.

"I am the Hidden God, hidden to serve an end. Veiled in mystery, I am further obscured by the mists of mortal delusion. Unable to see me, men declare I do not exist, yet I declare to you that man, with his mortal limitations, sees only a minute part of the whole. Man is the slave of illusion and deception. Though man is born to delusion, for it is a needful state, he is further inflicted by deceptions wrought by men. Though man cannot perceive the greatness above him, because of its greatness, neither can he see the smallness beneath him, because of its smallness. From the greatest came the smallest and from the smallest came creation, and within the smallest is greatness and power. For the smallest is far less than the mote, yet it is the upholder of the universe and it shines like the sun beyond the darkness. It lies out towards the edge of the reach of man's thought. "

Regarding the point about symbology, I think the idea of veiling esoteric secrets with symbogy tends to backfire precisely because the profane who stumble upon that veiled knowledge tend to take it literally and the distortions usually end up being detrimental in one way or the other
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:51:13 PM
Similar to a dream? Yes. Made of nothing? No.

What are your dreams made of? Brain cells, or something far less tangible? Where do our ideas and thoughts come from?

One can say perception of a certain frequency of reality is filtered through our senses, but what about perceptions and thoughts received beyond our physical senses?

These are very good questions to continually meditate and contemplate on to approach a greater knowledge of God and Self.

Well, what are your THOUGHTS?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:53:42 PM
Quote from: guest1
Well made of nothing can be a bit deceiving, what I meant is that you don't find solid matter anymore, but more of a spectrum of possibility according to the observation point. Now I am not a scientist to explain this in precise terms but it's pretty much what quantum mechanics has found.

Anyway I'd say that our thoughts come from the electric energy that is going through our neurons. So I guess if thought and thus consciousness is energy that opens up a bunch of far out possibilities that hopefully one day we'll be able to put in paper not just from a philosophical perspective but also from a scientific one.

********************

"The spirit of the Twice Born can be liberated at will. How often have you seen your brother in a state of ecstasy which he cannot describe? It is a state beginning in quiet bliss, flowing outward in bright radiance from an inner light which can even illuminate the material darkness about him. He hears the music of the sacred spheres and sees the throbbing pulsations of life heaving about him, like waves upon the great seas. He becomes aware of an inflowing of unspoken knowledge from a surrounding power. It does not come from any one point, but appears to flow out of all things and to penetrate all things. Material objects lose their density and become visible within, they become as though compounded of ten thousand whirling spheres of brightness. Colours are no longer dull and restricted, they become infinite in depth and number. The spirit becomes lost in adoration and wonder at the beauty revealed in everything. The soul is aware of something glorious within all this and knows it for the spirit outflowing from its source. "

Texts like these seem to imply that reality beyond the perception of the bodily senses is actually more akin to energy fields of diverse frequencies interacting with each other. After all I guess that is what this universe actually is, energy vibrating at different rates. I've always wondered what it would be like to see all the matter around us without the limitations of the human body. I mean clearly there's stuff out there, but it's also certain that the way we perceive it is subjective to our own tools of perception that we've been provided with.

"Man may think his eyes reveal things as they are, but no mortal eye has ever beheld a thing as it actually is. It appears to man through the coloured distorting glass of his own mortality."
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:54:05 PM
Close...The electricity in our brains transmits thoughts to other neurons, but this is not where it originates. You’ll have to work on this one awhile. It is not found in the Kolbrin, and material science is nowhere near what certain Masters have discovered. Eventually they will, just as the tongue lags behind the mind, and the body lags behind the tongue, so do the physical sciences lag behind the internal or spiritual sciences.

And “tools of perception” is an interesting term…could it be said then that our bodies and senses are the tool kit allowing us what we can know or understand? What about the passage you just quoted from the Twice Born, what senses were they provided with that you weren’t?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: guest1
Look to the heart... we may seek GOD outwardly, but HIS answers are within.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: guest1
Well I could just say that it all originates from the spirit energy emanating from the God source and which pervades the whole of creation. This is the esoteric explanation coming as far back as Hermes. The Twice Born in the Kolbrin argue they could awaken an extra sense which is not of the mortal body with which they could observe reality as it is. This is all very interesting, and one of the things I love about the Kolbrin without a doubt, but it is clear that most people don't naturally reach that state and it would be interesting if science could find evidence for all these metaphysical claims. If for anything to give some validity to them and steer mass human attention towards the subject.
I myself love to consider all interesting possibilities, but can't believe in things just because someone claims them to be true, otherwise I'd be in trouble seeing how lying is a prevalent trait in humankind.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:56:21 PM
Why are you waiting for science to tell you what's real?

Most of what is called "science" today is really only another system of religious like faith, as the rules and supposed facts are constantly scrapped and rewritten as new "discoveries" are made.

While Rex’s last post may on the surface seem unreal, simple, or childish…it is in fact the CORE of how you will really KNOW anything.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:57:22 PM
Quote from: guest1
Well I am not so quick to discredit science. Although it's true that there's tons of politics getting embedded in the discourse and a lot of grasping at straws I do think that science has a part to play in helping humankind getting back in track. Nowadays in the age of the internet and with technology easily available to the average person, the minds of countless individuals worldwide are working constantly to decipher the many questions that beset us.
I am hoping that at some point science finds out a common nexus with metaphysics and philosophy and turns into a positive force for mankind. Or else what should we expect? That we continue having just a tiny fraction of people becoming enlightened while the 99% continue to kill and cannibalize each other for the rest of time in a cyclical fashion as it has pretty much always been? Religion has failed to influence people for good and what is becoming our current paradigm will quickly turn the masses into degenerate ravagers, we need something urgently that can serve to create some sort of desirable framework for the masses to rely upon and create a more beneficial existence for themselves.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 06:58:03 PM
 I wasn’t speaking of the political distortion of science, that is another problem…

I am speaking of how new science often displaces old science. Einstein put Newton’s Laws on their head, yet Newton’s Laws still apply. Quantum physics turns Newton and Einstein on their heads, yet within their own frameworks they are still correct. Or how about classical Euclidian Geometry clashing with more recent non-Euclidian Geometry…who is correct?

And again, why are you waiting for people like these to confirm for YOU what is real?

As we ended with in our first discussion, the Earth is like a school, it was not designed for a society of perfected souls. There are many grades, levels, and sub-levels here, with only a tiny few graduating at any one time…and one day, you’ll be among them.

And yes, society as a whole is in a whole heap of trouble at present…and the seeds for a collective shift are being nurtured and prepared.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:00:08 PM
Quote from: guest1
Well that's a stance many times I consider, just concluding that all the troubles that humanity has to endure are necessary and that everything is in its correct place. But isn't it a positive human desire to progress and make things better? Yet if you think about it how many times have our ancestors created such dramatic situations while trying to do just that? It's all very intricate and as soon as you try to affect some factor while thinking you're going to fix one problem you might be unleashing the cause of a thousand more in the future. Maybe you're right and it's our fate to exist in this dimension while being faced with struggles. But then again I think we could ease them a bit, there's way too much degeneracy and viciousness in this world.

The bottom line here I think is this, do you actually expect to fix our problems by having people stumble upon some good philosophy , accepting it on faith and changing due to it? Because I'd say that's unrealistic. If you think that we're fine the way we are and that some sort of divine intervention will fix things at some point then I would remind you:

"Though unenlightened men expect it, it is not meet for Me to interfere unduly in the affairs of Earth".

Yet when divine intervention does occur it does seem to be very destructive. Maybe that's what we need, a good ole cataclysm.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: guest1
Nirvana / The Pleroma is NOT non-existence. It is life eternal, the deathless state, eternal bliss. Those (including us at present) who have not attained it are actually the dead ones who live like zombies / slaves.

The english translation of Nirvana as "annihilation" was actually INCORRECT because they have not studied Buddhism correctly from the original traditions. Take a course in the Abidhamma classes in the Theravadin or the Vajrayana traditions to get some better understanding about Nirvana.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:17:56 PM
Quote from: guest1
Is eternal bliss actually more desirable than actual thorough consciousness annihilation? the latter sounds a bit more comfy to me  ;)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:19:13 PM
Quote from: guest1
good question...! the problem is, now knowing (and this conforms with science) that everything is simply pure (mental) energy, it can not be created nor destroyed!  8)

Besides, the meaning of "shunyata" is that nothing actually really exists. Just like a dream / mirage, it's there, you can sense it, yet they do not have such a thing as an inherent real self/existence.

Sth that always changes does not have a thing that can be defined as an identity / "self". It is empty of such a thing as a permanent identity.

How can you annihilate sth that does not even really exist?  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:20:01 PM
Quote from: guest1
Well I can't fathom what a state of eternal bliss would be like, but if it is anything remotely like being conscious I think I would prefer just some sort of consciousness deactivation after death. I mean all these philosophies we're into studying tell us that either we're bound to reincarnate on earth once again(undesirable) or that we can escape that by attaining a state in which we can exist eternally in some better realm. Isn't it there some form of just not existing anymore as a self conscious entity?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: guest1
Not just in some (better) realm. Why not all these realms altogether / "the entirety" (that monists / theists incorrectly call "God")?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:21:54 PM
Quote from: guest1
"Would you know the ultimate state of man when he has finally reached his goal, when he has entered into his inheritance of divinity? It is a state of glory transcending anything conceivable by him during an earthbound existence. His consciousness expands to embrace everything, all that ever was or will be. He sees all. He knows all. He is in all and he contains all. These things come to him through infinite powers of perception, yet he is above all such powers. He is beyond all yet within all. He is beyond the realm of matter, freed from all restrictions, yet he is not denied its joys and may, if he so desires, manifest again in matter. His thoughts have the power of creation. He is one with the Light of Lights, the Light transcending vision. He is the partaker of My Substance, My son in eternity, the inheritor of everlasting life."

Yet as alluring as being able to pervade all existence and go around creating and destroying universes and guiding the development of lifeforms around all dimensions might be, one has to think, when does it all this game of consciousness gets tiresome and redundant? The goal after couldn't be to continue working upward forever and back down again in an eternal cycle but to totally disengage from the game.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:23:24 PM
Quote from: guest1
but of course you'll get to annihilate the painful (i.e. subject to pain/death), foolishly dangerous, deceptive, illusory "self" you assume in this state. In this state, there is only bliss, no conditionality whatsoever. Perhaps comparable to pure endorphins without dependence on any fake illusory, deceptive external objects any longer.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: guest1
Eternal pure happiness? Maybe that's subjective though, for some people non existence could be just that. But it's hard to talk about these things with understanding because we can't know how they are in reality.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:25:02 PM
Quote from: guest1
anyway, it's a long, long, looo...ooong way to get there. Annihilating this intrinsic dualistic ignorance is a very difficult task. Why? Because we have existed for so long. And this is why we need to attain the blissful Pure Abodes first according to these traditions, the realms where beings live without pain & suffering for aeons to consummate their Perfect Knowledge.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:25:51 PM
Quote from: guest1
when you get to this point in such topics it seems that you start stumbling upon the limits of human capacity to process such concepts.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: guest1
the only way to make sure is by conducting the right meditation. In the deep absorption state, not only you get mastery of (some of) the (verifiable) miraculous abilities, you'll also get the ability to see these higher realms. The technique is very simple: the serene mindfulness on the in-out breath.

You can get the instructions in the PDF form: The Visuddhi-Magga ("The Path of Purification") from the net. It's about 900 pages thick.

hmm... concerning the secrecy of the higher teachings (tantric) is because these complex symbolism used all tend to be misunderstood / misinterpreted by the many.

Even i myself nowadays prefer to stick to the 'orthodox' techniques (the Theravadin tradition) besides the tantric techniques is strictly forbidden to be practiced by charlatans.

Misinterpretations of these tantric anticosmic symbolism (such as the above pic) by our charlatan mind will be fatal according to these texts, thus the secrecy.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:27:54 PM
Atheistic Buddhism as compared to the Theistic writings of the Kolbrin, while differing theologically on certain key elements, offer equally real and valid paths to Transcendence. One path is generally better suited for the Easterner, while the other is typically better suited for the Westerner. The vast bulk of Western mysticism has long been suppressed and been underground, and in the past century those in the power elite have actively assisted in filling the void of the Western soul with a culturally unsuitable Eastern mysticism, while simultaneously foisting an unsuitable Western culture on Eastern peoples.

On a spiritual level, the Eastern path is 'passive' while the Western path is 'active', and each leading the practicing aspirant to different spheres of existence. The realm of non-duality is beyond each of these realms, and this Earth, which makes the question of ultimate creation almost a moot one at this phase. However, a passive path for an active soul prolongs reincarnational requirements, while increasing suffering and confusion, as previously discussed. And again, the purpose for this is not accidental.

The above concepts are HIGHLY abbreviated for time and space considerations. However, they should be deeply contemplated by those to whom it may be a concern.

And Manuel, you need not worry about the problem of eternal consciousness at present, as this issue cannot solve itself until other temporal lessons are learned...or unless you numb yourself into a backwards regression, which is common enough choice these days.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: guest1
WRONG again. Buddhism does not teach Atheism!
Buddhism teach that there is no such a thing as an omnipotent, benevolent entity. There are many gods and most of them are even unenlightened.

Worshiping these gods will get you nowhere. One should attain the salvific knowledges (sanskr. "jnana", "boddhi") instead to attain salvation (either liberation or rebirth in the higher realms / heaven).

Even your Bible does NOT say about a One God. It says about gods (!). The word elohim / allah is NOT a name nor a singular noun as your lying theistic leaders have told you. It is a PLURAL NOUN (!!!).

Sacrificing your kids (oblations / holocaust) to the gods is IMMORAL.

Active?? Active in what?? no single christian ("the counterfeit ones") can walk on water.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:30:58 PM
Please calm yourself. It is atheistic in regards to ultimate reality, and how you are defining creation. But these theological quibbles matter little from the perspective of this sphere and the next.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:32:47 PM
Quote from: guest1
The only thing that rules this world is the natural laws: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. It is a horrible thing, yet the blind ones call it "grace" or even "Divine Providence".

All existence, even concepts such religions evolved according to this same rule/scheme: Survival of the Fittest where beings kill/harm one another. It is not goodness / grace / benevolence. It is wickedness / tragedy / horror.

There is NO such a thing as this omnipotent, benevolent entity who can protect / save you from anything. Only you can save yourself. It's that simple.

Yet, driven by madness/delusions/ignorance (sanskr. Avidya, koine: Agnoia), they keep hallucinating about such a thing that they even had to falsify their own scriptures to maintain such insane delusions.

 the prophets & serial killers are the same: they follow the instructions given by invisible spirits (they call "God"). If only one would learn about the history of humanity & theisms.

"They were served by evil powers".
- The "heretical" Gospel of Philip.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:33:15 PM
Why do you think your soul chose to incarnate into this "horror", as you yourself choose to kill in order to survive?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
Quote from: guest1
okay... I understand what you are saying, and I completely disagree. "There is NO such a thing as this omnipotent, benevolent entity who can protect / save you from anything." What is it that you need to be saved from? this life? The Supreme Spirit has given this life to you for a reason. What you choose to do with it, is yours. And yes, he is omnipotent and ever present.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:35:53 PM
Quote from: guest1
we can't tell for sure. some beings choose to incarnate to enlighten others, yet some are born due to the inherent ignorant sparks of consciousness (theists call "soul"). yet if you would, you can obtain such knowledge (about the causes of why you chose to re-incarnate) after attaining the knowledges. but it won't be an easy one.

if your gods were omnipotent & good, then why should there be such a thing as hell? and, again, who created it?

If Creation were good, why need SALVATION in the first place??
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:36:26 PM
If you can't tell me why YOU have chosen to incarnate here, I'd say that damning all existence is just a tad premature.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:38:01 PM
Quote from: guest1
And who created your "God"? What was he doing before he created this Universe? And for what purpose did this god create you then?

You evolve from a subhuman species. If your God created you according to his image, then you are worshiping a neanderthal / ape god.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:38:36 PM
Quote from: guest1
bad agrument
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: guest1
Guys, I'm not forcing you to believe in these "heretical" gnostic gospels. I was just trying to explain the points with reference to science, logic & buddhistic scriptures.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:46:32 PM
Quote from: guest1
I like the gnostic texts as far as they go when improving on the human experience... but their cosmology is like putting a square peg in a round hole and is based on ignorance and misunderstanding.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
Quote from: guest1
i'm not going to explain any further. it's a matter of CHOICE whether you choose to believe in whatever things (facts or lies / hallucination) you want to believe.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:48:14 PM
Quote from: guest1
do not try to disprove GOD based on simple concepts of what HE is. I think we all would agree HE isn't those.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: guest1
... WE can not 'understand' infinity ... BUT, WE can FeeL IT = sensations, withOUT judgMEnt !! -))

... non judgment, is 'fEElINg' the AS IT IS, and withIN ...
(=the K-IN-G-DO-M of Hea-veN), the experiential understanding "EVERYTHING" is made of INFINITE LOVE/LIGHT/CALM-PASSION !! -)) ... please, do not BElieVE me, sit and 'fEEl IT' ! -))))))))
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:51:15 PM
Quote from: guest1
ok, goodnite guys! nice discussion we have here... but it's my bedtime already... it's ok we can all stick to our own beliefs without having our heads cut-off or burnt at the stake here on the internet.
May all beings be liberated, anyway...  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:51:49 PM
I find the Gospel of Thomas, for example, to be perhaps the best distillation of Jesus' Teachings I've ever read.

But with your apparent hatred and anger over the subject matter of creation, I don't see you able to learn anything more here until these poisonous emotions are unclouded from your Vision.

If you have such anger for the theistic, creationist theology of the Kolbrin, why are you here?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
Quote from: guest1
Well don't Gnostics believe in God only that they believe the first creation of God was hijacked by the Demiurge who created another corrupted realm within the main creation?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: guest1
That's where they lose me
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:54:06 PM
Quote from: guest1
Haha its very matrix like
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:54:49 PM
Yes, it is quite Matrix like…and one could compare the Gnostic Demiurge with The Architect in the Matrix Trilogy. However, in Gnosticism, there is an all powerful Creator God that is above the Demiurge and his abortive creation we know as the phenomenal, temporal universe. Underneath this all powerful Theistic Creator God there is a whole smattering of demigods, angels, demons, and elemental powers with various ranking, power, and responsibility.

(Interesting note: Who created the Architect [Demiurge] in the Matrix series? Answer: Humans did.)

This cosmology, while different in technical specifics and storyline, is similar to mainstream Judeo Christian cosmology in that Satan is given the power by God to rule over the Earth for a time. This line of thought is most apparent in the story of Job and Satan’s tempting of Jesus in offering him power over the Earth.

Gnosticism accuses (rightfully so) the Old Testament Jewish God as being the usurper Demiurge, and it is clear that the God of Moses differs fundamentally with the God of Jesus. But it is not the entire Old Testament that the Gnostics take issue with. There are many Kings, Prophets, Holy Men, and Law Givers…and they are not uniformly serving the same Master. It only appears so on the surface, and the more knowledgeable Adepts of Jewish Kabbalism understand the actual distinction and intricacies here, but will not share this knowledge with the uninitiated.

There are reasons the Demiurge (or Satan [Principal of Evil]) is allowed to flourish in the world that I shall not get into presently. It should be enough at present to realize that it is us as humans that CHOOSE to embrace evil and suffering while dishing it out to themselves and their fellow men. In other words, WE ASKED FOR IT!

As I have stated elsewhere, however, the Gnostic mistake was blame ANOTHER, or all material creation, for their own problematic state of being. Hating the Demiurge, or material creation in general, is not the state of mind that allows one to transcend this Evil, and in fact, actually binds one more closely to it.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: guest1
The Demiurge doesn't work for me.... Sounds more like trying to fix what they could not comprehend.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:56:17 PM
Or rather HATE what they could not comprehend...

The problem of the Demiurge was never solved or ‘fixed’ by a single Gnostic adherent, and therefore Gnosticism is only able to go so far in its understanding of spirituality…
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:57:03 PM
Quote from: guest1
Old Testament God is GOD, but generationally misunderstood by the scribes who set down the stories of Moses on paper. Then that misunderstanding of the nature of GOD was explained by this bizarre cosmology that almost rings of antisemitism.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:57:35 PM
Most of the original Gnostics were disaffected Jews…and were about as anti-Semitic as Jesus was in his condemnation of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

That being said, the New Testament God did not call himself a ‘jealous God’ or require you sacrifice your son (Abraham to Isaac), demand other animal sacrifices, demand a death sentence for disobedient children, or wipe out every man, woman, and baby in their bed to clear these ‘idol worshippers’ from the ‘promised land’ for God’s ‘chosen people’. I could go on and on…

And while the above is not the whole of Judaism, it is an accepted, central part of it that the Gnostics (and Jesus) rightfully rejected.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: guest1
The Old Testament God didn't say all those things either. The scribes say he did.... their concept of GOD was flawed, not GOD Himself... just like many Christians, Muslims, and Atheists still comprehend GOD as a man with a white beard on a throne rooting for sides in a football game.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:58:44 PM
So you are saying there was some kind of evil conspiracy by the Old Testament Jewish scribes? If so, who or what do you think guided their hands?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:59:16 PM
Quote from: guest1
No evil intent... they wrote what they believed to be accurate... based on the spoken word handed down for generations.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 07:59:44 PM
The scribes themselves were the Rabbis and Jewish holy men. You are implying that the Jewish religion became corrupted and ignorant of its original intent in a similar manner to how the Christian religion became corrupted over generations. In this we agree…

But it was not, by any means, purely an accident…
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: guest1
do tell
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 08:00:59 PM
 I do not have time to go fully into the matter right now. But it was a combination of simple human lust for control and power over others with a darker spiritual force that the Gnostics mistakenly attributed to their Demiurge. An actual Celestial force of inertia had its ‘invisible hand’ in the process, which leads one side of the very real “War in Heaven”.

Sorry so little to say about this now. Shall expand over time…
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on January 14, 2013, 08:02:23 PM
Quote from: guest1
In every material universe, the motion of a particle in a preferential reference frame Φ is determined by the action of forces whose total vanished for all times when and only when the velocity of the particle is constant in Φ. That is, a particle initially at rest or in uniform motion in the preferential frame Φ continues in that state unless compelled by forces to change it
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:35:42 AM
Quote from: guest1
conditionality is a booby trap. yet there is a WAY out.

i have nothing to say about "morality" and "norms. i can't completely agree nor reject it, leonard. some of them are beneficial while some of them are upside down.
this issue is very complex according to gnosticism/buddhism, i dare not speak it in the open because in reality, things are not as we see.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:36:04 AM
Please explain, Luminuous...
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:36:43 AM
Quote from: guest1
only after attaining GNOSIS will we understand exactly which actions are wholesome & which ones are not...
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:37:20 AM
Do you claim you have transcended conditionality/karma/cause and effect?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:38:17 AM
Quote from: guest1
for instance, gnosticism & buddhism teach that refraining from carnality is good for your salvation. only those who have attained the Direct Knowledges ("jnana") of where beings are getting reborn due to their "wholesome" or "unwholesome" actions.

nope. not yet. but fortunately since i used to serve them as a translator during long samatha retreats, i get these insights from those who have attained it.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:38:38 AM
These would be perfect beings then. Please name them.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: guest1
these transcendental knowledges can be verified, leonard. Personally i completely have nothing against sex, yet if enlightened beings with their verifiable knowledges & supernormal abilities teach us about its danger, then i think there's nothing wrong with following their instructions.

Nope. not yet. to attain the Ultimate Perfection will take you many countless of aeons.

these supernormal knowledges are yet enough to deliver from the cycle of ignorant becoming. somehow it really matters to me of knowing where i will go after this life (& also where i came from).

buddhism admits that it shares many points with the morality practice presented in major theistic religions. yet buddhism/gnosticism rejects such a thing as "Providence" & the existence of an omnipotent entity.
Contrary to what creationists / theists believe, modern science (Einstein's Relativity) & Buddhism postulated that time & space are finite yet beginningless.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:41:10 AM
Time and space is not God.

Transcendental knowledge is verifiable, but freedom from conditionallity is not while on Earth, in my experience. Please attempt to show otherwise.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:42:15 AM
Quote from: guest1
as in?

so what then, is this your definition of "God"?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:42:49 AM
Quote from: guest1
It's funny because I was about to make a group entry asking precisely if there's any empirical way to argue for morality unless the idea of the existence of the soul is first accepted as true. Ties in nicely with that Huxley quote.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:43:20 AM
Quote from: guest1
The Dharmakaya/Nirvana/the Primoridal Unborn Mind (modern physics: Energy) which is the absolute & the Monad is sometimes misunderstood by theists as "God".
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:43:58 AM
Quote from: guest1
Per the Kolbrin Luminous:

" Before the beginning there was only one consciousness, that of The Eternal One whose nature cannot be expressed in words. It was The One Sole Spirit, The Self Generator which cannot diminish. The Unknown, Unknowable One brooding solitary in profound pregnant silence.

The name which is uttered cannot be that of this Great Being who, remaining nameless, is the beginning and the end, beyond time, beyond the reach of mortals, and we in our simplicity call it God.

He who preceded all existed alone in His strange abode of uncreated light, which remains ever unextinguishable, and no understandable eye can ever behold it. The pulsating draughts of the eternal life light in His keeping were not yet loosed. He knew Himself alone, He was uncontrasted, unable to manifest in nothingness, for all within His Being was unexpressed potential.

The Great Circles of Eternity were yet to be spun out, to be thrown forth as the endless ages of existence in substance. They were to begin with God and return to Him completed in infinite variety and expression. "
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:45:14 AM
Quote from: guest1
Correct. The World itself & its conditionality & natural laws are all immoral. And since beings have no such a thing as an inherent permanent identity ('soul'), morality can only be defined subjectively/relatively.

Time & Space, according to Einstein is spherical, rather than flat. If you shoot a bullet with infinite power to the outer space, it will arrive from the opposite end. Practically speaking, this time & space inhabits nowhere and as such it can not even exist in the first place.  8)

Likewise in the sutras time is graphically depicted by the Awakened One as likened to a ball of yarn.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:45:48 AM
Quote from: guest1
It seems to me this whole reality is some sort of mental projection, it is real to us in every sense but it may be of a nature similar to a dream but much more powerful. That's my hunch, some sort of very powerful mentally created simulation.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:46:37 AM
Quote from: guest1
i happen to have this interesting video from modern science which might confound those who've never heard about shunyatta:
NOVA: THE RACE FOR ABSOLUTE ZERO.
It is called the "Bode-Einstein Condensate" where scientists are trying to figure out what the primordial condition of this Universe may look like. I was even amazed that the truth about non-self of all phenomena can now even be seen with our naked eye.  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:47:15 AM
Quote from: guest1
Luminous, how does your gnostic stance reconciles itself with your lack of belief in a conscious creator of all?
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: guest1
EXACTLY, Manuel, Exactly. You have observed correctly.

nope. actually i didn't say that there is no such a thing as a conscious creator.

what i keep saying is that being a creator of sth does not make you omnipotent, benevolent, not least omniscient.

actually this is the moralistic problem faced nowadays by clone scientists: whether creating sth whose destiny is beyond their control is morally right or wrong?  :)

then comes the BIG "heretical" QUESTION: whether the Creation of our present world is morally right or wrong? the simple answer is that if sth amounts to bringing suffering to others, then it must be morally WRONG.

Pain & suffering is evil. It is the ultimate immorality according to buddhistic/gnostic view.

Theistic Religions in advanced/civilized society have all proven to be a complete FAILURE when trying to explain why is SEXUALITY bad/wrong? Naturally, a Creationist will question: if it feels good, how can it be so wrong? This in turn creates a major confusion in all these religions. They've been seeking an explanation for it only to find none.  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:50:21 AM
Quote from: guest1
Well in regards to the Kolbrin this is explained in the following way:

"Though men may despair because I am veiled from them, though they may seek without finding, I am not indifferent to their needs and desires. Doubt and uncertainty are essential earthly conditions serving a definite end. I have not surrounded men with perplexities and obscurities unnecessarily. The climate of unbelief and materialism, strange though it may seem to men, is best for their spiritual health. I know better than men themselves what is best for them, for I alone can see the broad design spread over the ages, I alone see the end and objective. Though unenlightened men expect it, it is not meet for Me to interfere unduly in the affairs of Earth".
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:50:41 AM
Big weighty issues here. Will comment more in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:51:10 AM
Quote from: guest1
Haha Leonard totally loves this  ;)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: guest1
and again this moral question concerning Creation has led christians into arguing: does Hell exist? They are deeply disturbed with these knowledges imparted by Enlightened Beings through the gospels which were not found in the OT / jewish traditions.
Why?
Because if Hell exists, then Creation is simply IMMORAL.
Creation can only be moral, at least, if Hell does not exist.  8)

this is why modern pauline christians nowadays even refuted the belief in the existence of hellish realms (gnostic: "Tartaros").
Again, the only clear reference about the existence of such horrible realms can be found in the buddhist scriptures. Even the spiritually advanced hindus did not know about its existence. I tried looking for a reference to it in the vedas, yet i couldn't find any.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: guest1
"Now, there is one thing often asked touching the teaching concerning the unclean place, the ultimate disposal of the spiritual garbage. My friends, the doctrine of eternal condemnation is false. This cannot be, for it asserts a downward finality, which not only is against the whole creative intent, but also questions the goodness of The Supreme Spirit. The misery suffered by the unclean beings in their self-selected, filthy abode of shadowy horror, is in fact a purging and purifying cure. Though it lasts many ages of time, and the road upward through the density of matter is long and arduous, there is an end, be it in glory or oblivion. After so-called death, which word in former times meant no more than removal, each soulspirit goes to the habitat to which it is drawn by affinity. There, all its latent powers and qualities built up and hoarded during earthly life are released and revealed. These should suffice for complete spiritual happiness and freedom, and this is what the Ancients meant when they said, "His qualities will provide his food." Man, having learned to live harmoniously on Earth, continues in a state of harmony above. The Ancients also referred to this when they said, "He who sows the seeds of discord reaps the wild wind harvest.""
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:54:39 AM
Quote from: guest1
Everyone makes mistakes, even the gods make mistakes...
The greater the power that you have, the bigger the mistakes that you tend to make. Especially when they are without FOREKNOWLEDGE.

Yet, there are excellent Pure Abodes created by the Perfect Ones. Where suffering does not exist. Yet only a very very few of us can be reborn in these realms. And yes, your vows, aspirations & affinities may greatly determine where you will be born into... be it wholesome ones or unwholesome ones.

Our affinity to carnality simply means that we are wishing to be reborn again in the perishable realms (buddhist: Kamaloka, gnostic: Realms of Chaos) where the Archons (buddhist: Maradevas) rule over us.

the stronger the desire & affinity, the lower you will descend in these Kamaloka realms. if you have any experience w/ OBE you'll know this.  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:55:17 AM
Quote from: guest1
Well talking strictly about the Kolbrin views here, which is what concerns this group, I'd say the Kolbrin teaches that everything is as it's supposed to be, there's no incongruence in creation whatsoever, merely a crisis of perception by humans with limited understanding.

"If The Supreme Spirit is indeed the essence of love and kindness, could He not have created man in conditions, which gave him complete contentment and happiness, absolutely free from pain, sorrow and restraint? Is all this suffering and distress really necessary?"
"He could have created a perfect being and placed him in a condition of absolute contentment and happiness, but what purpose would this serve? Could such a being respond to love? Where could he learn its full meaning except in a state of lovelessness? Such things as love, pity, gratitude, mercy, unselfishness and all the other virtues are uncreatable qualities which can come into existence only through experience. Nothing can realise itself through a state of purity and perfection. Only by contrast can it become conscious of its existence."
"Pain checks man in the midst of senseless enjoyment and makes him ponder his fate. It causes him to turn his thoughts towards greater things and to reflect on the approach of death. Suffering, sorrow and trouble are tests, which, if passed successfully, qualify the soulspirit for entry into the greater sphere of existence. They create in him the qualities, which are needed there. To those who realise that these tests and trials have a purpose, they do not appear too harsh. But to those who cannot rise above them or who blame The Supreme Spirit or their fellowmen for what befalls them, the tests and trials appear as unnecessary hardships barely endurable."
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:56:41 AM
Quote from: guest1
the failure in understanding gnosticism/buddhism is that ppl keeps attributing everything to 1 single entity. the fact is everything came into being not due to a single cause ("ekajati") but rather through a multiple of causes ("anekajati"). Why? Because Time has no beginning. One day they will understand... Christ in the gnostic gospels say that the future generation of the Elect will.

Time has no beginning, while beings (including creator gods) have a beginning, and thus also, an end. This is what theists have failed to understand about the Truth presented by modern science & the "heretical" buddhistic/gnostic texts.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:57:14 AM
Quote from: guest1
Well this seems pretty reasonable to me. The Kolbrin says:

"Time no longer slept on the bosom of God, for now there was change where before all had been unchanging, and change is time."

"Mark the flight of an arrow from the hands of a bowman. It flies from the bent bow, time passes, then it finds its mark. But to Me the arrow leaves the bow, and strikes the mark together. Distance, time and change are not with Me."
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:57:53 AM
Quote from: guest1
Whatever has a beginning, also has an end, manuel! Including creator gods...
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 08:58:43 AM
Quote from: guest1
"In the beginning all things arose from the invisible and into the invisible all things will disappear in the end, but the end is not the end of the spirit. Out beyond this material creation born of the invisible, there is a higher eternal invisible of greater substance. When all material things have passed away, this will remain. Above all is timelessness, which is eternity, and there is My abode, the supreme goal of man, and those who attain it dwell in eternity. I am the Eternal God".
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:00:49 AM
Quote from: guest1
do not confuse the created with the Creator.

TIME is of this realm
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:01:31 AM
Again, Manuel’s knowledge of the Kolbrin puts me to shame as he has answered nearly all Luminuous’ objections with very powerful quotes which I feel no need to improve upon. But I’m happy to continue the debate personally if Luminuous can successfully answer the arguments Manuel posted out of the Kolbrin. Thus far, he has ignored these points, but I look forward to a well reasoned rebuttal.

Manuel wrote:

“I was about to make a group entry asking precisely if there's any empirical way to argue for morality unless the idea of the existence of the soul is first accepted as true.”

Please make the post anyway, Manuel, this is a very important question on its own.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: guest1
the Primordial Creator is the Ignorant Aspect of the Mind. You guys still don't get it do you. The duality of Subject & Object and the consequent conditioned concept of Time & Space arose from it. Only later then much coarser existences of beings gradually took place. From the subtlemost realms where beings have only minds, and then the coarser realms where it is more & more conditioned due to the stronger downward force of this Delusion/Ignorance (of hallucinating about inherent existence leading to dualistic grasping in the Primordial Monistic Mind, this in turn leads to the formation of more & stronger delusions which in turn again leads to such stronger dualistic/conditional grasping). The stronger this self-delusion is, the stronger pull downwards it has to these beings. This is why Renunciation has always been the basic principle of the Path towards salvation.

I can relate a story about a rich man who died without understanding this scientific Truth (Dharma), thinking that his existence happened according to some omnipotent will of a benevolent spirit ("God"). When he was alive, he hid his money under the trunk of a tree without telling anyone, nay, not even his own family & children knowing it. When he died he was reborn into a puppy who was born within the vicinity of that tree due to his strong affinity to that place.

Contrary to what theists hold that as if most people, especially good people who died are reborn in heaven, according to buddhism/gnosticism this is not the Truth. The Truth is most of these beings who die are mostly (about more than 99%) are getting reborn in the lower realms (as animals, unclean spirits, demons & hell denizens). Read your Bible if you don't blv this story. READ what your Bible tells you (rather than what your ignorant pauline ministers tell you) about where the OT prophets are reborn after they die: Sheol (AKA Tartaros/Hell). There is also an account of it in the "heretical" Gospel of Bartholomew about how during the 3 bardo (-->sanskr. "Antarabhava") days after the Crucifixion Jesus tried to save these ignorant prophets who were their ancestors who were ignorant of GNOSIS, worshipping the Chief Archon instead. You should know this story is again perfectly reminiscent with those you can find in the Great Vehicle buddhist literature (such as the Boddhisattvas Ksitigarbha & Avalokiteshvara).

You may want to read The Parable of the Buddha as a Skillful Fisherman in the Upaya-Kausalya Sutra.

I also happen to find a lot of stories even videos of exorcism in the pentecostal churches which confirms this Truth. You can also read the childhood story of ppl in christianity such as Derek Prince Jr. which no theistic speculations can explain.

I don't want to argue. Knowing the deep slumber of most beings who can't even see the Truth around them in their daily lives. Even Jesus was crucified by these ignorant bigots even mistaking THE SON OF MAN as something else ("an only begotten son of an ignorant creator god/deity".

Find out about the Alaya-vijnana/Dharmakaya and then you may understand The Father (NOUS) that Jesus tried to introduce to you: the unknown Father that they have never heard of.

May all beings attain GNOSIS.

And sadly, there is only 1 way of knowing this Truth. That is by the attainment of GNOSIS.  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:03:07 AM
I think there is a lot of miscommunication and misunderstood terminology occurring here. Luminuous, without Eastern terminology or complex linguistic gymnastics, please in simple terms explain this ‘unknown father’, or God the Father of Jesus as he spoke about this “Heavenly Father”.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:04:10 AM
Quote from: guest1
The gnostic descriptions about this "Unknown Father" who is a "Monad" (meaning sth free from dualism & thus any dualistic descriptions) who is "Mind Only", "Unborn", "more excellent than gods" and "a non-being" actually fits perfectly with the buddhistic description of the Dharmakaya / Alaya-vijnana.

Like i told you, the Original gnostic doctrine of Trinity (rather than the counterfeit, inferior version we've heard all this time from our ignorant pauline church ecclesiastics) clearly resembles the buddhistic concept of TRIKAYA.

Even if you had some understanding of languages, you can even cross-transliterate them in quite consistency with each other:

TRIKAYA (tri=3, kaya=body) = TRIMORPHIC PROTENNOIA
The perfect 3-in-one body (Dharmakaya-Sambhogakaya-Nirmanakaya) of a Boddhisattva. You can ask your local Tibetan buddhist lama, possibly from the gelukpa traditions, if you want to know about what it exactly is.

It might take a whole book to explain what it is in words. But one thing for sure this is not what you theists think (an omnipotent creator god). For one thing, there is no such a thing as omnipotence. And there are many gods. i know buddhism/gnosticism is very difficult for many ppl esp. w/ deluded monotheistic background to understand. but at least with logical analysis strengthened with scientific proofs, someday people will get it of what it is all about.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:04:40 AM
I think we are getting closer to agreeing with your description of the "Unborn Monad" and what we are calling "God". This is the "First Cause", the original creator, the "Divine Spark" that is within all but also above and beyond creation. But, my friend, I think you are vastly misinterpreting what you define as "monotheism".
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:05:20 AM
Quote from: guest1
I like what luminous brings to the table despite all the eastern terminology, what I think unfortunately is that he tends to argue a strawman to often.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:06:42 AM
Quote from: guest1
OK, actually this thing called "God" in theisms is quite confusing, because ppl tend to ascribe too many things to this confusing concept.
The problem is such an entity they're fantasizing about does not exist. Or strictly speaking, it can't even exist.

Have you heard about this typical fundamental question regarding monotheism?

OK, here goes: "Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create a stone which is so heavy that even himself can not lift?"
or "Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create another Omnipotent God?"

Any answer you give will only show you that such a concept of Omniopotence in monotheism is completely FALSE.

If any theistic concept may come any close to the gnostic/buddhistic concept of this "Father"/"Dharmakaya", then it would be MONISM (which is also considered as a "heresy" in the pauline christian traditions), rather than monotheism.

The difference being that this gnostic/buddhistic "Father" soteriology tends to have this strong anticosmic tone (esp. in regards to the Realms of Chaos / Kamaloka) while the monistic traditions tend to be affirming or perhaps completely silent on this matter.

Valentinian Gnostics & Chinese 'Buddhism' are examples of this hybrid / confused concept of a mixture between Creationism & Gnosis.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:08:05 AM
Yes, I do find strains of Buddhism and Gnosticism quite “anti-cosmic”. It hates creation, it hates reality, it hates life, it hates the condition it finds itself in, and desires an annihilation of existence into nothingness.

This is a path that can spur one on to improve and transcend, but what a miserable way to go about it, no?

“Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create a stone which is so heavy that even himself can not lift?"
or "Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create another Omnipotent God?"

Yes, and yes… but not in the manner you may think…  ;)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:27:50 AM
Quote from: guest1
@ Leonard: i give up. you completely missed me. as long as you keep hallucinating about such a thing as omnipotence, you will never accept these "heretical" gospels & the Truth that Enlightened Beings have taught us. You don't even understand the scientific law of thermodynamics that Energy is neither created nor can it be annihilated. Just like what happened with Buddhism when it was studied by the chinese ("zen buddhism"), the majority of the Western World is still far from understanding the scientific Truth / Dharma.

I have expounded over and over that you can NOT annihilate yourself. If you're a man of science i think you would know this better. Your fleshly & worldly passions are like wine that make you drunk. When you're drunk you will never understand what goodness is. Once again it is not annihilation. It would be falling to the other extreme of IGNORANCE if you think that you can annihilate yourself. In Buddhism, this is known as the extreme of Nihilism.

I have provided you with a reference video about shunyata last time. But you guys would never listen. For you are too proud with your materialistic creationism nonsense.

There has been too many philosophers, even theologians such as Augustine who have refuted this ignorant concept of Omnipotence.

Look around you. Open your eyes. There is no such a thing as this omnipotent benevolent entity who controls this Universe. Rather it is SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. By following its norms, even considering it as "Divine Providence" (rather than Diabolical), it will drag you down lower into the bottom of the hierarchy of realms of existence for you have accustomed yourself to its savage norms.

As long as one can not tell the difference between the hard FACTS & their insane HALLUCINATIONS, never will they see the Truth. When you see INIQUITY you say it is justice. When you see wickedness, you say it is benevolence. When you see savagery, you say it is "Providence".

You belong to this World so i guess i have nothing more to say.

I never said that the Universe can not expand. you completely misunderstood everything i say because you seem to have no knowledge about these texts. The Enlightened One actually had preceeded modern astronomers by 2500 years by proclaiming about the endless expansion & contraction of the Universe(s) from a time without beginning.

Learn science. Read the buddhist scriptures. You will no longer be confused anymore. It will open your eyes to KNOWLEDGE.  8)

If Christ was omnipotent then why should He be crucified? To redeem you from your unforgivable sins?? The World rejected Him but you say that He sacrificed himself as an oblation to the Chief Archon. A savage doctrine of your ancestor (of sacrificing your sons to the gods in exchange for petty worldly benefits) you consider to be 'piety'/'goodness'. Your ancestors went down to Hades, and you are in fact walking towards the same path as your ignorant ancestors took.

"the blood of the lamb" to appease the gods? :D
yes it may please them, but where will you go after this life for such ignorant savage practice? heaven? if heaven is full with savage ignorant ppl then what kind of heaven would that be like? think again.  8)

So you're saying that you expect to see ppl lk Bush Jr., Osama Bin Laden, Benedict, the crazy popes, the majority of deludedly selfish theists and the likes, AGAIN, in heaven? and wait a minute.. for ETERNITY? *LOL*  8)

Christ was baptized in the tradition of (mandaean) gnosticism. He did not baptize anyone. And you're saying that by receiving baptism you could go to heaven? *LOL*  8)

THINK again.  :D

Your gods are nothing but a laughing stock to the Perfect Aeons. There is no such a thing as omnipotence. These gods of yours too someday will die. Some of them will also be reborn in Hell for their ignorant self-delusions.  8)

If there is no such urgency, the Perfect Aeons would have not EMANATE themselves into this World.

Your ancestors went down to Hades. And you will never believe that because you stick to that omnipotent nonsense that your ignorant ancestors hold.  8)
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: guest1
I find this fascinating. I truly hope that these posts remain on the board so we can reflect on them.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on February 27, 2013, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: guest1
I am honestly saddened to not even be able to allow myself to read luminous eloquent posts due to the fact that he seems to be stuck in a discussion with some Christian fundamentalist instead of with us here at the Kolbrin group. Luminous, please, do us all a favor and stop arguing a strawman, we're here in the Kolbrin group, this is not a Pauline Christian group man.

I don't really feel he's even talking to US.
Title: Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
Post by: guest1 on June 19, 2013, 04:51:31 AM
Escape ?
No, there is no escape.
The world is a schoolhouse, to test and to teach.............
Improovment, and ascendancy...............
That's what it is about.
The Earth, that is.