Author Topic: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence  (Read 22343 times)

January 14, 2013, 06:56:21 PMReply #15

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2013, 06:56:21 PM »
Why are you waiting for science to tell you what's real?

Most of what is called "science" today is really only another system of religious like faith, as the rules and supposed facts are constantly scrapped and rewritten as new "discoveries" are made.

While Rex’s last post may on the surface seem unreal, simple, or childish…it is in fact the CORE of how you will really KNOW anything.

January 14, 2013, 06:57:22 PMReply #16

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2013, 06:57:22 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Well I am not so quick to discredit science. Although it's true that there's tons of politics getting embedded in the discourse and a lot of grasping at straws I do think that science has a part to play in helping humankind getting back in track. Nowadays in the age of the internet and with technology easily available to the average person, the minds of countless individuals worldwide are working constantly to decipher the many questions that beset us.
I am hoping that at some point science finds out a common nexus with metaphysics and philosophy and turns into a positive force for mankind. Or else what should we expect? That we continue having just a tiny fraction of people becoming enlightened while the 99% continue to kill and cannibalize each other for the rest of time in a cyclical fashion as it has pretty much always been? Religion has failed to influence people for good and what is becoming our current paradigm will quickly turn the masses into degenerate ravagers, we need something urgently that can serve to create some sort of desirable framework for the masses to rely upon and create a more beneficial existence for themselves.

January 14, 2013, 06:58:03 PMReply #17

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2013, 06:58:03 PM »
 I wasn’t speaking of the political distortion of science, that is another problem…

I am speaking of how new science often displaces old science. Einstein put Newton’s Laws on their head, yet Newton’s Laws still apply. Quantum physics turns Newton and Einstein on their heads, yet within their own frameworks they are still correct. Or how about classical Euclidian Geometry clashing with more recent non-Euclidian Geometry…who is correct?

And again, why are you waiting for people like these to confirm for YOU what is real?

As we ended with in our first discussion, the Earth is like a school, it was not designed for a society of perfected souls. There are many grades, levels, and sub-levels here, with only a tiny few graduating at any one time…and one day, you’ll be among them.

And yes, society as a whole is in a whole heap of trouble at present…and the seeds for a collective shift are being nurtured and prepared.

January 14, 2013, 07:00:08 PMReply #18

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2013, 07:00:08 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Well that's a stance many times I consider, just concluding that all the troubles that humanity has to endure are necessary and that everything is in its correct place. But isn't it a positive human desire to progress and make things better? Yet if you think about it how many times have our ancestors created such dramatic situations while trying to do just that? It's all very intricate and as soon as you try to affect some factor while thinking you're going to fix one problem you might be unleashing the cause of a thousand more in the future. Maybe you're right and it's our fate to exist in this dimension while being faced with struggles. But then again I think we could ease them a bit, there's way too much degeneracy and viciousness in this world.

The bottom line here I think is this, do you actually expect to fix our problems by having people stumble upon some good philosophy , accepting it on faith and changing due to it? Because I'd say that's unrealistic. If you think that we're fine the way we are and that some sort of divine intervention will fix things at some point then I would remind you:

"Though unenlightened men expect it, it is not meet for Me to interfere unduly in the affairs of Earth".

Yet when divine intervention does occur it does seem to be very destructive. Maybe that's what we need, a good ole cataclysm.

January 14, 2013, 07:17:08 PMReply #19

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2013, 07:17:08 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Nirvana / The Pleroma is NOT non-existence. It is life eternal, the deathless state, eternal bliss. Those (including us at present) who have not attained it are actually the dead ones who live like zombies / slaves.

The english translation of Nirvana as "annihilation" was actually INCORRECT because they have not studied Buddhism correctly from the original traditions. Take a course in the Abidhamma classes in the Theravadin or the Vajrayana traditions to get some better understanding about Nirvana.

January 14, 2013, 07:17:56 PMReply #20

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2013, 07:17:56 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Is eternal bliss actually more desirable than actual thorough consciousness annihilation? the latter sounds a bit more comfy to me  ;)

January 14, 2013, 07:19:13 PMReply #21

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2013, 07:19:13 PM »
Quote from: guest1
good question...! the problem is, now knowing (and this conforms with science) that everything is simply pure (mental) energy, it can not be created nor destroyed!  8)

Besides, the meaning of "shunyata" is that nothing actually really exists. Just like a dream / mirage, it's there, you can sense it, yet they do not have such a thing as an inherent real self/existence.

Sth that always changes does not have a thing that can be defined as an identity / "self". It is empty of such a thing as a permanent identity.

How can you annihilate sth that does not even really exist?  8)

January 14, 2013, 07:20:01 PMReply #22

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2013, 07:20:01 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Well I can't fathom what a state of eternal bliss would be like, but if it is anything remotely like being conscious I think I would prefer just some sort of consciousness deactivation after death. I mean all these philosophies we're into studying tell us that either we're bound to reincarnate on earth once again(undesirable) or that we can escape that by attaining a state in which we can exist eternally in some better realm. Isn't it there some form of just not existing anymore as a self conscious entity?

January 14, 2013, 07:21:01 PMReply #23

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2013, 07:21:01 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Not just in some (better) realm. Why not all these realms altogether / "the entirety" (that monists / theists incorrectly call "God")?

January 14, 2013, 07:21:54 PMReply #24

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2013, 07:21:54 PM »
Quote from: guest1
"Would you know the ultimate state of man when he has finally reached his goal, when he has entered into his inheritance of divinity? It is a state of glory transcending anything conceivable by him during an earthbound existence. His consciousness expands to embrace everything, all that ever was or will be. He sees all. He knows all. He is in all and he contains all. These things come to him through infinite powers of perception, yet he is above all such powers. He is beyond all yet within all. He is beyond the realm of matter, freed from all restrictions, yet he is not denied its joys and may, if he so desires, manifest again in matter. His thoughts have the power of creation. He is one with the Light of Lights, the Light transcending vision. He is the partaker of My Substance, My son in eternity, the inheritor of everlasting life."

Yet as alluring as being able to pervade all existence and go around creating and destroying universes and guiding the development of lifeforms around all dimensions might be, one has to think, when does it all this game of consciousness gets tiresome and redundant? The goal after couldn't be to continue working upward forever and back down again in an eternal cycle but to totally disengage from the game.

January 14, 2013, 07:23:24 PMReply #25

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2013, 07:23:24 PM »
Quote from: guest1
but of course you'll get to annihilate the painful (i.e. subject to pain/death), foolishly dangerous, deceptive, illusory "self" you assume in this state. In this state, there is only bliss, no conditionality whatsoever. Perhaps comparable to pure endorphins without dependence on any fake illusory, deceptive external objects any longer.

January 14, 2013, 07:24:07 PMReply #26

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2013, 07:24:07 PM »
Quote from: guest1
Eternal pure happiness? Maybe that's subjective though, for some people non existence could be just that. But it's hard to talk about these things with understanding because we can't know how they are in reality.

January 14, 2013, 07:25:02 PMReply #27

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2013, 07:25:02 PM »
Quote from: guest1
anyway, it's a long, long, looo...ooong way to get there. Annihilating this intrinsic dualistic ignorance is a very difficult task. Why? Because we have existed for so long. And this is why we need to attain the blissful Pure Abodes first according to these traditions, the realms where beings live without pain & suffering for aeons to consummate their Perfect Knowledge.

January 14, 2013, 07:25:51 PMReply #28

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2013, 07:25:51 PM »
Quote from: guest1
when you get to this point in such topics it seems that you start stumbling upon the limits of human capacity to process such concepts.

January 14, 2013, 07:27:13 PMReply #29

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2013, 07:27:13 PM »
Quote from: guest1
the only way to make sure is by conducting the right meditation. In the deep absorption state, not only you get mastery of (some of) the (verifiable) miraculous abilities, you'll also get the ability to see these higher realms. The technique is very simple: the serene mindfulness on the in-out breath.

You can get the instructions in the PDF form: The Visuddhi-Magga ("The Path of Purification") from the net. It's about 900 pages thick.

hmm... concerning the secrecy of the higher teachings (tantric) is because these complex symbolism used all tend to be misunderstood / misinterpreted by the many.

Even i myself nowadays prefer to stick to the 'orthodox' techniques (the Theravadin tradition) besides the tantric techniques is strictly forbidden to be practiced by charlatans.

Misinterpretations of these tantric anticosmic symbolism (such as the above pic) by our charlatan mind will be fatal according to these texts, thus the secrecy.