Author Topic: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence  (Read 22728 times)

February 27, 2013, 09:00:49 AMReply #90

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2013, 09:00:49 AM »
Quote from: guest1
do not confuse the created with the Creator.

TIME is of this realm

February 27, 2013, 09:01:31 AMReply #91

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2013, 09:01:31 AM »
Again, Manuel’s knowledge of the Kolbrin puts me to shame as he has answered nearly all Luminuous’ objections with very powerful quotes which I feel no need to improve upon. But I’m happy to continue the debate personally if Luminuous can successfully answer the arguments Manuel posted out of the Kolbrin. Thus far, he has ignored these points, but I look forward to a well reasoned rebuttal.

Manuel wrote:

“I was about to make a group entry asking precisely if there's any empirical way to argue for morality unless the idea of the existence of the soul is first accepted as true.”

Please make the post anyway, Manuel, this is a very important question on its own.

February 27, 2013, 09:02:46 AMReply #92

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2013, 09:02:46 AM »
Quote from: guest1
the Primordial Creator is the Ignorant Aspect of the Mind. You guys still don't get it do you. The duality of Subject & Object and the consequent conditioned concept of Time & Space arose from it. Only later then much coarser existences of beings gradually took place. From the subtlemost realms where beings have only minds, and then the coarser realms where it is more & more conditioned due to the stronger downward force of this Delusion/Ignorance (of hallucinating about inherent existence leading to dualistic grasping in the Primordial Monistic Mind, this in turn leads to the formation of more & stronger delusions which in turn again leads to such stronger dualistic/conditional grasping). The stronger this self-delusion is, the stronger pull downwards it has to these beings. This is why Renunciation has always been the basic principle of the Path towards salvation.

I can relate a story about a rich man who died without understanding this scientific Truth (Dharma), thinking that his existence happened according to some omnipotent will of a benevolent spirit ("God"). When he was alive, he hid his money under the trunk of a tree without telling anyone, nay, not even his own family & children knowing it. When he died he was reborn into a puppy who was born within the vicinity of that tree due to his strong affinity to that place.

Contrary to what theists hold that as if most people, especially good people who died are reborn in heaven, according to buddhism/gnosticism this is not the Truth. The Truth is most of these beings who die are mostly (about more than 99%) are getting reborn in the lower realms (as animals, unclean spirits, demons & hell denizens). Read your Bible if you don't blv this story. READ what your Bible tells you (rather than what your ignorant pauline ministers tell you) about where the OT prophets are reborn after they die: Sheol (AKA Tartaros/Hell). There is also an account of it in the "heretical" Gospel of Bartholomew about how during the 3 bardo (-->sanskr. "Antarabhava") days after the Crucifixion Jesus tried to save these ignorant prophets who were their ancestors who were ignorant of GNOSIS, worshipping the Chief Archon instead. You should know this story is again perfectly reminiscent with those you can find in the Great Vehicle buddhist literature (such as the Boddhisattvas Ksitigarbha & Avalokiteshvara).

You may want to read The Parable of the Buddha as a Skillful Fisherman in the Upaya-Kausalya Sutra.

I also happen to find a lot of stories even videos of exorcism in the pentecostal churches which confirms this Truth. You can also read the childhood story of ppl in christianity such as Derek Prince Jr. which no theistic speculations can explain.

I don't want to argue. Knowing the deep slumber of most beings who can't even see the Truth around them in their daily lives. Even Jesus was crucified by these ignorant bigots even mistaking THE SON OF MAN as something else ("an only begotten son of an ignorant creator god/deity".

Find out about the Alaya-vijnana/Dharmakaya and then you may understand The Father (NOUS) that Jesus tried to introduce to you: the unknown Father that they have never heard of.

May all beings attain GNOSIS.

And sadly, there is only 1 way of knowing this Truth. That is by the attainment of GNOSIS.  8)

February 27, 2013, 09:03:07 AMReply #93

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2013, 09:03:07 AM »
I think there is a lot of miscommunication and misunderstood terminology occurring here. Luminuous, without Eastern terminology or complex linguistic gymnastics, please in simple terms explain this ‘unknown father’, or God the Father of Jesus as he spoke about this “Heavenly Father”.

February 27, 2013, 09:04:10 AMReply #94

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2013, 09:04:10 AM »
Quote from: guest1
The gnostic descriptions about this "Unknown Father" who is a "Monad" (meaning sth free from dualism & thus any dualistic descriptions) who is "Mind Only", "Unborn", "more excellent than gods" and "a non-being" actually fits perfectly with the buddhistic description of the Dharmakaya / Alaya-vijnana.

Like i told you, the Original gnostic doctrine of Trinity (rather than the counterfeit, inferior version we've heard all this time from our ignorant pauline church ecclesiastics) clearly resembles the buddhistic concept of TRIKAYA.

Even if you had some understanding of languages, you can even cross-transliterate them in quite consistency with each other:

TRIKAYA (tri=3, kaya=body) = TRIMORPHIC PROTENNOIA
The perfect 3-in-one body (Dharmakaya-Sambhogakaya-Nirmanakaya) of a Boddhisattva. You can ask your local Tibetan buddhist lama, possibly from the gelukpa traditions, if you want to know about what it exactly is.

It might take a whole book to explain what it is in words. But one thing for sure this is not what you theists think (an omnipotent creator god). For one thing, there is no such a thing as omnipotence. And there are many gods. i know buddhism/gnosticism is very difficult for many ppl esp. w/ deluded monotheistic background to understand. but at least with logical analysis strengthened with scientific proofs, someday people will get it of what it is all about.

February 27, 2013, 09:04:40 AMReply #95

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2013, 09:04:40 AM »
I think we are getting closer to agreeing with your description of the "Unborn Monad" and what we are calling "God". This is the "First Cause", the original creator, the "Divine Spark" that is within all but also above and beyond creation. But, my friend, I think you are vastly misinterpreting what you define as "monotheism".

February 27, 2013, 09:05:20 AMReply #96

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2013, 09:05:20 AM »
Quote from: guest1
I like what luminous brings to the table despite all the eastern terminology, what I think unfortunately is that he tends to argue a strawman to often.

February 27, 2013, 09:06:42 AMReply #97

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2013, 09:06:42 AM »
Quote from: guest1
OK, actually this thing called "God" in theisms is quite confusing, because ppl tend to ascribe too many things to this confusing concept.
The problem is such an entity they're fantasizing about does not exist. Or strictly speaking, it can't even exist.

Have you heard about this typical fundamental question regarding monotheism?

OK, here goes: "Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create a stone which is so heavy that even himself can not lift?"
or "Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create another Omnipotent God?"

Any answer you give will only show you that such a concept of Omniopotence in monotheism is completely FALSE.

If any theistic concept may come any close to the gnostic/buddhistic concept of this "Father"/"Dharmakaya", then it would be MONISM (which is also considered as a "heresy" in the pauline christian traditions), rather than monotheism.

The difference being that this gnostic/buddhistic "Father" soteriology tends to have this strong anticosmic tone (esp. in regards to the Realms of Chaos / Kamaloka) while the monistic traditions tend to be affirming or perhaps completely silent on this matter.

Valentinian Gnostics & Chinese 'Buddhism' are examples of this hybrid / confused concept of a mixture between Creationism & Gnosis.

February 27, 2013, 09:08:05 AMReply #98

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2013, 09:08:05 AM »
Yes, I do find strains of Buddhism and Gnosticism quite “anti-cosmic”. It hates creation, it hates reality, it hates life, it hates the condition it finds itself in, and desires an annihilation of existence into nothingness.

This is a path that can spur one on to improve and transcend, but what a miserable way to go about it, no?

“Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create a stone which is so heavy that even himself can not lift?"
or "Can this 'Omnipotent God' of yours create another Omnipotent God?"

Yes, and yes… but not in the manner you may think…  ;)

February 27, 2013, 09:27:50 AMReply #99

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2013, 09:27:50 AM »
Quote from: guest1
@ Leonard: i give up. you completely missed me. as long as you keep hallucinating about such a thing as omnipotence, you will never accept these "heretical" gospels & the Truth that Enlightened Beings have taught us. You don't even understand the scientific law of thermodynamics that Energy is neither created nor can it be annihilated. Just like what happened with Buddhism when it was studied by the chinese ("zen buddhism"), the majority of the Western World is still far from understanding the scientific Truth / Dharma.

I have expounded over and over that you can NOT annihilate yourself. If you're a man of science i think you would know this better. Your fleshly & worldly passions are like wine that make you drunk. When you're drunk you will never understand what goodness is. Once again it is not annihilation. It would be falling to the other extreme of IGNORANCE if you think that you can annihilate yourself. In Buddhism, this is known as the extreme of Nihilism.

I have provided you with a reference video about shunyata last time. But you guys would never listen. For you are too proud with your materialistic creationism nonsense.

There has been too many philosophers, even theologians such as Augustine who have refuted this ignorant concept of Omnipotence.

Look around you. Open your eyes. There is no such a thing as this omnipotent benevolent entity who controls this Universe. Rather it is SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. By following its norms, even considering it as "Divine Providence" (rather than Diabolical), it will drag you down lower into the bottom of the hierarchy of realms of existence for you have accustomed yourself to its savage norms.

As long as one can not tell the difference between the hard FACTS & their insane HALLUCINATIONS, never will they see the Truth. When you see INIQUITY you say it is justice. When you see wickedness, you say it is benevolence. When you see savagery, you say it is "Providence".

You belong to this World so i guess i have nothing more to say.

I never said that the Universe can not expand. you completely misunderstood everything i say because you seem to have no knowledge about these texts. The Enlightened One actually had preceeded modern astronomers by 2500 years by proclaiming about the endless expansion & contraction of the Universe(s) from a time without beginning.

Learn science. Read the buddhist scriptures. You will no longer be confused anymore. It will open your eyes to KNOWLEDGE.  8)

If Christ was omnipotent then why should He be crucified? To redeem you from your unforgivable sins?? The World rejected Him but you say that He sacrificed himself as an oblation to the Chief Archon. A savage doctrine of your ancestor (of sacrificing your sons to the gods in exchange for petty worldly benefits) you consider to be 'piety'/'goodness'. Your ancestors went down to Hades, and you are in fact walking towards the same path as your ignorant ancestors took.

"the blood of the lamb" to appease the gods? :D
yes it may please them, but where will you go after this life for such ignorant savage practice? heaven? if heaven is full with savage ignorant ppl then what kind of heaven would that be like? think again.  8)

So you're saying that you expect to see ppl lk Bush Jr., Osama Bin Laden, Benedict, the crazy popes, the majority of deludedly selfish theists and the likes, AGAIN, in heaven? and wait a minute.. for ETERNITY? *LOL*  8)

Christ was baptized in the tradition of (mandaean) gnosticism. He did not baptize anyone. And you're saying that by receiving baptism you could go to heaven? *LOL*  8)

THINK again.  :D

Your gods are nothing but a laughing stock to the Perfect Aeons. There is no such a thing as omnipotence. These gods of yours too someday will die. Some of them will also be reborn in Hell for their ignorant self-delusions.  8)

If there is no such urgency, the Perfect Aeons would have not EMANATE themselves into this World.

Your ancestors went down to Hades. And you will never believe that because you stick to that omnipotent nonsense that your ignorant ancestors hold.  8)

February 27, 2013, 09:28:20 AMReply #100

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2013, 09:28:20 AM »
Quote from: guest1
I find this fascinating. I truly hope that these posts remain on the board so we can reflect on them.

February 27, 2013, 09:30:15 AMReply #101

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2013, 09:30:15 AM »
Quote from: guest1
I am honestly saddened to not even be able to allow myself to read luminous eloquent posts due to the fact that he seems to be stuck in a discussion with some Christian fundamentalist instead of with us here at the Kolbrin group. Luminous, please, do us all a favor and stop arguing a strawman, we're here in the Kolbrin group, this is not a Pauline Christian group man.

I don't really feel he's even talking to US.

June 19, 2013, 04:51:31 AMReply #102

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Re: A Gnostic/Buddhist Goal of Existence
« Reply #102 on: June 19, 2013, 04:51:31 AM »
Escape ?
No, there is no escape.
The world is a schoolhouse, to test and to teach.............
Improovment, and ascendancy...............
That's what it is about.
The Earth, that is.