Author Topic: Maori Tradition  (Read 49056 times)

July 28, 2013, 05:05:58 PMReply #30

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2013, 05:05:58 PM »
:) Hello Ra;   thankyou for the links,  good to hear from you, Laraine

Hi Laraine, your welcome, and thanks :)
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

July 28, 2013, 05:38:50 PMReply #31

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2013, 05:38:50 PM »
The following is a interesting link and information, regarding the earlier post on the possible relationship between  Manu and Maui, and shows a link between Manu and Noah, so i ask myself is it possible Maui was Noah?

If so, brings a whole new meaning to the Waka(boat) of the gods(south island), the boat Maui fished up the north island from.

THE FATHERLAND OF THE POLYNESIANS. ARYAN 1 AND POLYNESIAN POINTS OF CONTACT. No. 4

A tradition of the Maoris, told to the writer many years ago by the most learned man of the South Island then living, was to the effect that Hawaiki-nui was a tuawhenua, a mainland, not an island, that the southern part was mostly plains, with a high ridge of mountains to the north, always snow-clad, and through which country ran the river Tohinga, associated with the deluge. This is not a bad description in general terms of that part of India, and the river Tohinga (which means the Maori form of baptism) is possibly the Ganges, a sacred river of the Hindus.

The story about the deluge, however, is an instance of the transference of an occurrence localized in another place, of which we have such numerous examples. Although the story of the flood is well-known and fully described in Aryan records, it is believed by scholars to have been introduced from Mesopotamia, where great floods in the Euphrates and Tigris gave rise to the story, and formed the basis of the Biblical account. The Noah of the latter account is the Manu of the Aryan story, which word in Maori means “to float,” possibly an accidental similarity.

http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document/Volume_28_1919/Volume_28%2C_No._109/The_fatherland_of_the_Polynesians._Aryan_and_Polynesian_points_of_contact._No._4%2C_by_S._Percy_Smith%2C_p_18-30?action=null

The story's of both Moses and Noah, both have interlacing frequency, which can cause some confusion between the two.

Chapter 14
Moses Illusion: Implication for human cognition

http://www.psy.cmu.edu/faculty/reder/ph_rlm.pdf

Maori meaning of the word Manu

1. (noun) bird, kite - any winged creature including bats, cicadas, butterflies, etc.

2. (noun) person held in high esteem - a figurative use usually qualified by an epithet


mānu - (verb) to be floating, launch, afloat.

http://www.maoridictionary.co.nz/index.cfm?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&dictionaryKeywords=manu
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 05:42:09 PM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

August 03, 2013, 05:20:00 PMReply #32

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2013, 05:20:00 PM »
Another interesting Link thanks Ra

August 05, 2013, 04:28:17 AMReply #33

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2013, 04:28:17 AM »
Kiaora Ra,
Doesn't Manu also mean "black ", as in Manu kaha ?

No'ach, in Hebrew has the meaning "White one", as in his complexion, as well as, they say, his character as in white for purity.
Although, I myself am far more inclined to belive the account in the Enuma Elish, than the Biblical tale, the Biblical tale does have its lessons.
Love and light bro.

August 05, 2013, 07:23:28 AMReply #34

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2013, 07:23:28 AM »
Kiaora Ra,
Doesn't Manu also mean "black ", as in Manu kaha ?

No'ach, in Hebrew has the meaning "White one", as in his complexion, as well as, they say, his character as in white for purity.
Although, I myself am far more inclined to belive the account in the Enuma Elish, than the Biblical tale, the Biblical tale does have its lessons.
Love and light bro.

kia ora sha'ul

close, black in Maori is  Mangu or Pango,  similar sounding, but you do bring up an other interesting connection regarding No'ach Hebrew meaning of "white one" and Manu

within the word Manu, is the word Ma, ma in Maori means white. Not to sure on the nu, but nui is big.

and even in the word Maui, we have the Ma at the beginning.

If you ever get the chance to read some of the Waitaha books, you will notice the description of some of the Waitaha ancestors are white in appearance with green and blue eyes. Ever wonder why pawa shells are used in Maori ancient carvings of the gods and ancestors, which give the carvings the appearance of green and blue eyes, to me that is because  the ancestors of this land had blue and green eyes!



Thanks  for the interesting  info bro,  love an light  :) 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 07:39:33 AM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

August 09, 2013, 04:04:59 AMReply #35

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2013, 04:04:59 AM »
What !
Man, right under our noses !
Of course, that's why they have Paua shell eyes, that's out of it.
But its obvious isn't it ?
You sure are a wealth of information brother, keep it up, please.
We'll have to get together soon bro, maybe in Summer, meet you at Laraines maybe ?
We can all camp out, and watch the Blue Kachina (Ison) come in together  !
Arohanui, love and light to you brother
Sha'ul..

October 15, 2013, 06:24:17 PMReply #36

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2013, 06:24:17 PM »
What i found bro, is that its the little things the count, and its the little things that make up the big picture, like HDMI TV, the more dots the clearer the picture.

Some times the obvious can be the hardest to see, because we trying to find the bigger picture, when the whole time the answer is right in front of us.

Would love to get  together at Laraine's?, Coromandel is a beautiful place, a place i would love to get lost in.

Thank you Sha'ul

Heremaia
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

October 16, 2013, 03:35:03 AMReply #37

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2013, 03:35:03 AM »
The following is from Martin Doutre book, Ancient Celtic New Zealand, I thought you might find this of interest Diane, as the Tuatha De Danann have strong links to Ireland, If Martin is correct, then  it might have been the Tuatha De Danann who brought the Tara place names here, along with other traditions and customs relating to the ancient Israelites?.

A Voice From the Dust

Arrayed upon Moytura Plain, De Dananns's tall and strong. Our fey-like folk outreached, outmatched, a desperate childlike throng. Then vanquished from the bloody field, defeated, sore distressed.

No home awaits through Herculean gates, from whence our people came. From slavers whip, from servitude, yon tyrants there our bane. No sanctuary lying to the west, no Isles, just storm swept sea. OF home, of hearth, of hope bereft, devoured in misery.

The Oracle spoke of Si-nim's Isles, 'neath the starry cross of Set, beyond Pharaoh's eucalyptus route, 'afore floating Ice be met. Where no foe didst strut, nor bully strive, a land of mystic peace, where bairn couldst laugh 'midst plenitude and woe and sorrow cease.

When midyear Sun rose through Taurean dawn, we glimpsed old Ire the last. But turned our eyes to southern skies, heaven's map before the mast and sailed by lands of tall black men, to sweltering oceans east, where currents tugged us east and south, to Si-nim's southern reach.

Then swept us north and eastly still, to Si-nim's furthest land. 'Neath long white clouds, in crashing surf, we beached there on the sand. 'Pon fertile plains we tilled and toiled, sowed grains to harvest meals. No serpent slithered twixt our feet, no scorpion at our heels.

Midst towering trees our orb abodes, we built of fitted stone. 'Neath open skies we sought for hills, where RA's gold presence shone. And raised up pillars to the Gods, that dwelt amongst the stars And laid out etchings on the ground, to mark the path of RA.

With knowledge gleaned of Enoch's gift, for all that dwelt on Earth, we set our times for toils and fests and cultural rebirth. Yet others came in peace to dwell, for rest, for harmony. E'en De Dananns, fresh from war, in quest of sanctuary.

The barques of Egypt 'proached our shores and Mayans, with their ship, to gather precious, verdant stone, from the mountain of the mist. The cairn, the tor, 'pon hill, in vale, by Amon's guiding hand, we built and set, to measures true and mapped all Si-nim land.

And dwelt in peace for all the days that RA didst rise in Taurus. Through Aries', to Piscean's House, no conflict came before us. Tall people from the warm east Isles, their hair of reddish hue, didst come on large and splendid craft, of double hulled canoe.

When Amon RA was dwelling in the Star house of Pisces, came brown skinned people, warm Isle folk, who foraged in the seas. They learned our arts, to weave, to plant, our counting of the days, to carve the precious verdant stone, so many of our ways.

Yet others of their kinfolk came, their populations grew. Came word of wars in northern Isles and fleets o Tonga-tapu. And warriors of the northern fleets, at last didst find our shores and drew some kinfolk to their stance and peace was known no more.

And murmurs came of horrid sights and savage men of dread, who terrorised our captured kin and feasted on our dead. Our undefended villages, by stealth, by forceful raids, were overcome, each fell with ease, all souls within them slayed.

All Si-nim land was bathed in blood, most died but others flee. Survivors, stalked and hunted still, 'neath forest canopy. Our maidens, knew but living death, rapine, abuse and scorn, enslaved to heartless, callous men and to them children born.

Brave maidens fair, down cast of heart, their babes upon their knees, recounted our ancestral truths and genealogies. 'Commit to memory my child' a duty a must, Lest memory of our noble folk, lie forgotten in the dust.

Dedicated to those, not allowed to be remembered.

Martin Doutre

Ancient Celtic New Zealand

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message341551/pg3058

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/inde.html
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 03:40:31 AM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

October 17, 2013, 02:20:21 AMReply #38

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2013, 02:20:21 AM »
Absolutely fantastic Ra.  Great to have your input again.

I have to wonder here, and this is for Culdians in particular, does this indicate Elvid has been brought to these shores not once (back in late '79/'80) but on at least one other occasion?  I would have to presume, by this research of Ra's, that the ancient adage of "when Elvid comes in spring" to perhaps be a distant memory of these earlier voyagers and a reference to a "promised land" of sorts. 

I cannot fully explain here, but the information presented resonates very strongly with me. 

I am indebted to you Ra, as what you have given here has truly pulled at me in a way I have not experienced for quite some time.  As one from Tara, I thank you.

October 17, 2013, 05:49:23 PMReply #39

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2013, 05:49:23 PM »
Thank you Lance, good to be back, been very busy last few months, Me an my partner had our 4th boy in September, would of been our 5th if you count the one we lost, so we have been adjusting to the changes, the time away also helps to let the information settle/process.

Got a 24h shift coming up, so ill be back in a couple of days, see yous soon.

Hi to everyone :)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 07:11:46 PM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

October 18, 2013, 02:01:23 AMReply #40

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2013, 02:01:23 AM »
Understandable on all fronts.  Congratulations to you both.

October 19, 2013, 08:18:16 AMReply #41

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2013, 08:18:16 AM »
Thanks again Lance, what Martin has written has pulled at me as well.

In examining some of the dots.

The Zodiac and Its Signs

Among the ancients the sun was always symbolized by the figure and nature of the constellation through which it passed at the vernal equinox. For nearly the past 2,000 years the sun has crossed the equator at the vernal equinox in the constellation of Pisces (the Two Fishes). For the 2,160 years before that it crossed through the constellation of Aries (the Ram). Prior to that the vernal equinox was in the sign of Taurus (the Bull). It is probable that the form of the bull and the bull's proclivities were assigned to this constellation because the bull was used by the ancients to plow the fields, and the season set aside for plowing and furrowing corresponded to the time at which the sun reached the segment of the heavens named Taurus.

Albert Pike describes the reverence which the Persians felt for this sign and the method of astrological symbolism in vogue among them, thus: "In Zoroaster's cave of initiation, the Sun and Planets were represented, overhead, in gems and gold, as was also the Zodiac. The Sun appeared, emerging from the back of Taurus. " In the constellation of the Bull are also to be found the "Seven Sisters"--the sacred Pleiades--famous to Freemasonry as the Seven Stars at the upper end of the Sacred Ladder.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta12.htm

A CONCEPTUAL OVERVIEW OF MAORIDOM AND FREEMASONRY IN NEW ZEALAND SOCIETY


Early Maori/Freemasonry Connection expressed:

There are many general assertions that a system of signs identical with modern Freemasonry exists within the Maori society. The most precise account is a paper in the New Zealand Craftsman of 8 February 1898, by Brother Henry Stowell4, “being a Native of New Zealand on my grandmother’s side, she being an Aboriginal Native” 5.

The paper is quoted in its entirety6:

“The Maori in their traditions, fangitawhiti (epic poems), and language show conclusively that ages ago there was at Hawaiiki, a grand temple known as wharekura, at which temple meetings were regularly held and presided over by tohunga (priestly experts), or initiates of a very high order, and wherein was taught and practised a perfect system of principles in an esoteric form, with exhaustive and appropriate rituals, also symbols, signs, and passwords, and that these were kept and preserved on tables of stone, which latter were deposited in the temple. The ritual and symbols were entrusted by the ariki-ranji (divine and supreme head) to the various officers in order to properly carry out the ceremonials connected with these meetings, whereat only those others who were entitled to be present had the happiness of listening to the recitals, and of observing the uses of the higher symbols. Regarded from a Maori point of view this Masonry is neither more nor less than the relation of ‘the main features of creation and the origin and history of the higher destiny of man’, which relation was accompanied with appropriate symbols. Tane was the G.A.O.T.U., and he may or may not be identical with the Chaldean, Oannes. The language in which this wisdom religion was embodied is extremely archaic, but thanks to my having been taught in my youth, by an aged tohunga and relative, some of the symbols and mysteries, I understand many of the allusions and am acquainted with various signs. A knowledge of astronomy, being absolutely essential to a proper realisation of the principles of the order, and its adepts — tohunga-kokorangi — were constantly taught in observatories, its elements and phenomena, to those who were accepted for qualification.

Read more http://www.mastermason.com/hbresearch/pages/lecture11.htm

No wonder the  G in the freemansony symbol, reminds me of maui's hook (Hei Matau) used in legend to fish up the north island.

For the Māori, the hei matau is taonga (a cultural treasure). It represents not only their land, but also prosperity, fertility and safe passage over water. They also denote the importance of fishing to Māori, and their relationship to Tangaroa god of the sea.





Being a fishing hook, reminds me of Jesus the fisher of men, what was his bait?, was it not his own blood?, the releasing of his own ignorance?

Maui in fishing up the north island is said to have blooded his own nose to use as bait, because his brothers would not share theirs, interesting connection?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Ika-a-M%C4%81ui

No bull Astrology by Tara Greene

In the Age of Taurus, 6,000 years ago, Bull’s were worshipped. Agriculture  begun, and the Bull was the animal that enabled humanity to settle down from being nomadic. In Ancient Egypt they celebrated the festival of the Apis Bull for seven days. The scared bulls were paraded through the streets in a holy procession. Any child who smelled the breath of  the Apis bulls were considered to receieve the ability to predict the future.  The bulls themselves were considered oracles. Food was offered to the Apis bull while a question was asked, if the bull ate the food it was a good omen and if he rejected it that was considered  bad. Yes Apis bulls and bees are related.  Taurus was the sign, the constellation which heralded the Spring equinox in ancient Egypt, not Aries as we are accustomed to.

http://infinitynow.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/earth-day3-day-new-moontaurus-monthno-bull-astrology-by-tara-greene/

Listen to the People. Talking with an Extinct Race. Part 1

“There are about 2,000 Ngati Hotu left. I hope more will come forward when they read this story. Of my generation of our family, there are only four left – me, my brother and two sisters. There are 800 in our whanau. When the seven warrior waka arrived in New Zealand, my people were here. Our history says that our people first came to Aotearoa a long time back from what is now called Iran. If you go there today, the women still have moko, the black lips. Our people came here through Borneo.”

Monica jokes about her curved “Mediterranean” nose. Her mother taught her the Ngati Hotu language, a tongue that she says that is quite unlike Maori. Linguists have taken no note of this vital link with the ancient history of New Zealand. How could they, when Ngati Hotu were said to be extinct?

Maori and Egyptian Tattooing

Through the kindness of the Otago Witness, we are enabled to reproduce some pictures showing the similarity of the tattoo marks in some women in Assouan, Upper Egypt and the ordinary kauae or chin tattooing of Maori women. Figure 4 is a Maori woman, the other three are Egyptians. These sketches were made by Captain Robley, the well-known authority upon Maori art. Capt. Robley also found certain ornamental designs on Egyptian mummies, identical with Maori patterns.”



http://www.elocal.co.nz/View_Article~Id~266~title~Listen_to_the_People._Talking_with_an_Extinct_Race._Part_1.html

Taurus pulls at me personally as i was born in the center of Taurus, May the force(4th) be with you 1977, year of the serpent, so i see this year of the serpent very relevant to me, and i am anticipating  the up coming influences of the serpent month (November-January),  with comet Ison(eye son/mind,3rd eye?), about and expected to shine, it should be interesting.

Ophiuchus the serpent bearer

In contrast to Orion, it is in the period November–January (summer in the Southern Hemisphere, winter in the Northern Hemisphere) when Ophiuchus is in the daytime sky and thus not visible at most latitudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus

http://apps.ohiohistory.org/ohioarchaeology/serpent-mound-featured-in-ohio-archaeology-month-poster/#comment-1117

Enjoy the links :)
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

October 19, 2013, 01:08:32 PMReply #42

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2013, 01:08:32 PM »
Hello Ra, and congratulations on your new wee boy.  I am enjoying reading your articles........Laraine :)

October 19, 2013, 07:11:03 PMReply #43

Offline guest1

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2013, 07:11:03 PM »
Hello Laraine, and thank you, He is doing great.

Been enjoying the Culdian books/writings, look forward to sharing thoughts about it in relevant threads :)
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

October 19, 2013, 08:21:15 PMReply #44

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2013, 08:21:15 PM »
What is of interest for me is here, is the connection to Maori and the southern part of Sumeria, and Uru, known as Ur of the Chaldees.

Uru is the name of one of the homelands of the maori.

THE ORIGIN OF THE MAORI.

THE HIDDEN HOMELAND OF THE MAORI, AND ITS PROBABLE LOCATION

THE identification of the original home of the Polynesian race, to which the Maori of New Zealand belongs, is a matter that has long interested ethnologists. The unquestionably deep interest it has aroused has sprung from several sources. In the first place we know that the ancestors of the Maori have been the most daring and successful deep sea neolithic voyagers of whom we have any record. We know that they have, in past centuries, traversed the vast Pacific Ocean in their rude carvel-built craft in every direction. Knowing nought of compass or metals, they opened up the rolling sea roads, and crosshatched the Great Ocean of Kiwa with the wake of their swift gliding prau. Yet again we know that the Maori was in occupation of a greater portion of the surface of the earth than any other old-time race. We know that he was found in sole occupation of an area of 5,000 by 4,500 miles of the Pacific region, that he has still many colonies extant in Melanesia and Micronesia, and that faint echoes of his ancient speech are heard from far off Madagascar. To these causes of interest may be added that produced by the remarkable mentality of the Maori, and its manifestations and results. His many historical traditions, his spiritual concepts, his elaborate sacerdotal method of conserving and teaching esoteric knowledge, his systems of sociology, cosmogony, anthropogeny and mythology, all possess elements of deep interest to thinking minds. Above all, these institutions, usages, beliefs, arts, and other activities, tend to cast much light on the development of civilisation, the evolution of human culture.

And what of the Maori, the Polynesian himself? What sayeth the descendant of the courageous sea rovers who broke out the water trails from the ever loved homeland. We know that to the Maori, more so than to us, is it truly the hidden homeland. He tells us that that land lies far away to the west, or north-west, that his forbears steered for the rising sun when seeking new homes in the vast ocean. He speaks of that homeland as Hawaiki, as Atia, as Tawhiti, as Uru, as Irihia, as Mataora, and other less known names.

With regard to the land of Uru, from which the party of migrants came eastward to the hot land of Irihia, we can locate but one region of that name if we assume that Irihia is the Vrihia of ancient days. In the southern part of Sumeria, near the mouth of the Euphrates river, as then situated, existed about 2800 B.C. the flourishing state of Uru, known as Ur of the Chaldees to readers of the Scriptures. The correct form of this name is Uru, as given in Conder's “Rise of Man.” Of this place the patron deity was Sin, the personified form of the moon, a name that calls to mind Sina, the widely known moon goddess of Polynesia. She is known as Hina to the Maori of New Zealand, where, as in ancient Egypt, the moon goddess is the patron deity of women, presiding over childbirth and the art of weaving.

The Hawaiian Polynesians have preserved a tradition of a land or region called Ulu-nui that lay adjacent to the old home of their ancestors. In our New Zealand dialect this name would appear as Uru-nui (Great Uru). It is not my intention to proclaim that the homeland of the Maori, that is to say of the Polynesian race, has been located, I merely draw attention to these interesting traditions and other data, and await further evidence. When we come to examine the institutions, myths, beliefs, concepts and ritual of the Maori, we shall find many analogies with those of southern Asia.

The late Judge Fenton, in his “Suggestions for a History of the Maori People,” considers that Ulunui refers to Ur of the Chaldees. The word uru in vernacular Maori speech means “west,” a significant and interesting fact, when we consider the relative positions of India and southern Sumeria.

The Polynesians maintain that their forbears ever sought the rising sun, the red road of Tane, the east, after leaving the homeland. And that is why their spirits flit westward when death releases them!

http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document/Volume_32_1923/Volume_32%2C_No._125/Origin_of_the_Maori._The_hidden_homeland_of_the_Maori%2C_and_its_probable_location%2C_by_Elsdon_Best%2C_p_10-20/p1?action=null

Hmmm interesting, the red road of Tane, reminds me of the yellow brick road,  With Emerald city at the end, Pounamu the healing stone?
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin