Culdian Forums

Woman, Wisdom, and the Fall

Started by Len, March 10, 2013, 10:42:14 PM


There has been a lot of discussion here lately about the spiritual nature of women as compared to men and how this relates to wisdom and the fall of man. The ancient myths and teachings show a definite connection between these subjects, but unfortunately, political correctness has thus far prevented us from openly naming this connection. I think it may be time to break the taboo and truthfully discuss this matter without fear, for without openly knowing the truth, let alone feeling comfortable even asking the question, how can we possibly hope to make a change for the better?

Both Sha’ul and Heremaia have openly stated , and Diane has insinuated, that women were the ancient keepers and teachers of the highest knowledge.

So, without fearing the political correctness that denies even the questions to approach certain truths, I ask: what is the nature and specific characteristics that womankind holds? Why did woman lose this status of being the highest keeper of knowledge, and what role did she play in this loss? Why have we seen over 5,000 years of an unbalanced patriarchal civilization(s)? What does this have to do with the “fall” of man? And, what does woman have to do to regain this status in herself, her family, her community, and society at large?


Quote from: Manuel CufreI think the problem comes from ancestral grudges. Apparently at some point women committed some form of treason in our early societies and this caused them to be distrusted. Time passed and this distrust reached even to those women who had done nothing wrong. Now we're seeing the tide change and women are reclaiming their right to have their revenge for all this injustice by creating a system that treats men who have not oppressed them in any way in an unfair manner judging them for the sins of their male ancestors. I think all of this could be ended if we judged groups and individuals by what they are presently doing and not by what their ancestors have done. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the nature of humankind.


Quote from: Katsi DuzynskiPerhaps the creation of life itself was the treasonous act ...


Quote from: Manuel CufreFrom most of the sources I've read it was some form of miscegenation.


Quote from: Katsi Duzynskihmmm. interesting.


Ahh, the Gnostic stance... So are you saying, Katsi, that the creative, female aspect of God in 'giving birth' to the material universe is the original sin/treason, and hence the curse of all that is female humankind?


Quote from: Heremaia KoopuI think it has to do with women's cycles and her relationship to the moon, where once the moon was the major deity, until an event happen that saw the rise of Sun worship. Sin was a babylonian moon god, today sin has a whole different context to which it once held, a fall from the original context of the word, if ever i saw one?

He is commonly designated as En-zu, which means "lord of wisdom". During the period (c.2600-2400 BC) that Ur exercised a large measure of supremacy over the Euphrates valley, Sin was naturally regarded as the head of the pantheon. It is to this period that we must trace such designations of Sin as "father of the gods", "chief of the gods", "creator of all things", and the like. The "wisdom" personified by the moon-god is likewise an expression of the science of astrology, in which the observation of the moon's phases is an important factor.


Yet, Sin was a male god in the pantheon you speak of, not a female goddess... So, you'll need to elaborate a bit more on the human females' relationship with a Babylonian male moon god.

And, would you care to speculate on the past "event" you speak of?


Quote from: Heremaia KoopuI am not sure Leonard what the event was that resulted in the fall of moon worship and the rise of sun worship, a change in the heavens, cycles, where the moon was seen to lose influence maybe?.

This confusion in the sex, ascribed to the Sun and Moon by different nations, may have arisen from the fact that the day is mild and friendly, hence the Sun which rules the day would properly be considered feminine, while the Moon which rules the chill and stern night might appropriately be regarded as a man. On the contrary, in equatorial regions, the day is forbidding and burning, while the night is mild and pleasant. Applying these analogies, it appears that the sex of the Sun and Moon would, by some tribes, be the reverse of those ascribed to them by others, climatic conditions being responsible for the confusion.

Connection between Woman and the Moon

A man by the name of Alexander Marshack, in the 1960's found a piece of bone near the headwaters of the Nile. The bone was close to 30,000 years old. But its age however, was not the most interesting feature. What made this bone particularly unusual is that it had at periodic intervals, notches carved into it as if to mark a sequence of time. He later found many other such markings on bones, antlers, stones and goddess figures, in Czechoslovakia, Russia, Spain and Italy.

After studying these numerous finds, Marshack was convinced that the lines were not made all at once as if to somehow decorate the object, but were made at different times as one would find with any crude calendar. His theory is that these objects were the first attempts at keeping a record of time, and that these markings were actually indications of lunar cycles.

This idea was quite shocking to his academic friends. For it implied a degree of mental sophistication on the part of our early ancestors, that no one had yet imagined. But then something else turned up, something that uncovered their eyes and pulled back the curtain. It is a solitary carving in rock about 17 inches high, discovered in France. Its age has been estimated between 24,000 to 20,000 years old. It is a female figure standing upright. She is holding elevated in her right hand a bison's horn - crescent-shaped like the New Moon. The horn is notched with thirteen lines.

These mysterious thirteen lines became the centre of much discussion. Eventually, they came to be understood to indicate either the thirteen days from the visible New Moon to the Full, or the thirteen New Moons of each yearly cycle.

The most astounding thing about this carving however, is graphically indicated by her left hand. She is resting her left hand upon her swelling womb, showing all to see in no uncertain terms, a relationship between the cycles or phases of the Moon and the cycles of the womb. In this figure, the mystery and power of the celestial realms have become graphically infused and embodied in the Female Form.

This mysterious unity of the celestial and the terrestrial realms personified in the Female is certainly the most powerful and long lasting religious image ever to evolve in the human species. And in fact, it is still with us today. Go into any Catholic church and look closely at the image of the mother of Jesus. She will be found to be standing on the crescent Moon.


Interesting material, which begins to explain the female relationship with the Divine, but not fully I think...

Also, while your explanation of climate would determine the sex of the sun and moon deities, this would not account for Babylon or the ancient Middle Eastern pantheon as a whole, as the climate there is arid and desert like. Judging by climate alone, Sin should be female, yet he is male.


Quote from: Heremaia KoopuHi Leonard

Look at Israel, it was once known as the land of milk and honey, yet it is dry and arid today, there have been many climate changes through out time in a lot of areas world wide, what we see today, should not be used to judge its past condition.


Israel, bordering the sea, was an oasis surrounded by desert, at least in the time of Moses, who wandered 40 years in the desert before first finding the promised land. And this was when Babylon was at its zenith.

But I'm afraid we're getting off topic...


Quote from: Rex PerkinsQ: "what is the nature and specific characteristics that womankind holds?" A:Intuitive perception


I think maybe Rex is on to something here. How might we connect that answer to the other questions in my original post?


Quote from: Rex PerkinsAlthough man of Subsequent Creation has made himself the slave of his own intellect, woman has transgressed to a far greater extent.

Equipped with the greatest delicacy of intuitive perceptions, she should easily swing herself up to the purity of Luminous Heights, and form the bridge to Paradise for all humanity. Woman! Streams of Light should flow through her. Her entire physical, gross material nature is adapted to this. Woman only needs to will honestly, and all the offspring from her womb must be strongly protected and encompassed by the power of the Light even before birth! It could not possibly be otherwise, because every woman through the wealth of her intuitive perception can almost entirely alone influence the spiritual nature of the fruit! Therefore she remains primarily responsible for all her descendants!

In addition she has been richly endowed with unlimited possibilities to influence the entire people, indeed even the whole of Subsequent Creation. Her starting-point of the greatest power is, for her, home and hearth! There alone lies her strength, her unlimited might, but not in public life! In home and family her abilities make her queen. From the quiet, intimate home her incisive virtue extends through the whole people, present and future, and pervades everything.

There is nothing upon which her influence cannot absolutely be brought to bear, if she stands in that place where her inherent womanly abilities fully unfold to blossom. But only if woman is truly womanly does she fulfill the mission which is assigned to her by the Creator. Then she is completely what she can and should be. And it is only genuine womanliness that silently educates the man who, supported by this quiet activity containing undreamed-of power, feels like storming the heavens. Out of an inner naturalness he will then gladly and joyfully seek to protect true womanhood as soon as it only shows itself to be genuine.

But womankind of today trample underfoot their real power and their high mission, they blindly overlook them, wantonly destroy all the sacred gifts they carry within them, and instead of being an upbuilding influence they bring about disintegration, thus being the most poisonous element in Subsequent Creation. They push man as well as children down with them into the abyss. --Abd-ru-shin