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Specialized Areas of Interest => World Events and News => Topic started by: Len on June 23, 2013, 07:27:18 PM

Title: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Len on June 23, 2013, 07:27:18 PM
I follow the news; political, economic, scientific, technological, etc. and a theme that keeps recurring lately is the age old quest for immortality. But it is no more Ponce de León’s quest for the fountain of youth. Today it is believed to be a real technologic possibility. The first step is to transplant an aging brain into an robot or android. Next, completely map your brain and personality onto a computer, which will further have holographic and substantial control over external reality.

All of this will supposedly add strength, sensory perception, and an almost universal awareness to those “plugged in”. This is technology’s response to “becoming God”. The type of experiential existence to those going through this would be radically different from the human experience as we know it, and would alter the “soul” in ways never before dreamed of.

I make no ethical judgment or comment on this yet, but I would like to hear the forum members thoughts on what is being proposed.

One story concerning this can be read below, but there are many others, even books by mainstream scientists discussing the potential of these and like themes:

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/2013/06/17/russian-tycoon-wants-move-mind-machine/9YMjvCZ0eztSCEKFkovn2L/singlepage.html
 (http://www.boston.com/business/technology/2013/06/17/russian-tycoon-wants-move-mind-machine/9YMjvCZ0eztSCEKFkovn2L/singlepage.html)
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on June 23, 2013, 08:00:46 PM
I think the craziest part of this would be the capacity to transfer the consciousness of a person to a virtual reality world. People would be offered so many pleasures that they would do anything to be able to go inside. It would be like the internet but a trillion times worse. People would accept anything to be able to go within "the matrix" and be young, beautiful, strong, and live all their fantasies at least for a few hours in the day. Perfect control mechanism. What you folks think?
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on June 23, 2013, 09:26:19 PM
I suppose this really does show the world and its inhabitants just how little the average (and not so average) person knows about consciousness and the mind.

Quote
A disclaimer here.  I do not profess to know everything there is to know about the brain, consciousness, the subconscious, the superconscious, etc., or the dimensional factors related to all of these.

Egotistical materialists are so wrought with fear that I have to wonder at times just what their concept of reality is.  Sadly, in my opinion, scientists can be just as dim-witted.

The human brain, like every other part of the anatomy and physiology of the human body, is subject to rather immutable laws at present.  These sort of dictate that material things will last for a while, but will eventually disintegrate, turning into other forms of energy and matter; even prosthetics will last for a finite period of time before they begin to fail structurally.

I do not believe that consciousness is something that can be played with so blithely.  So far, no scientist has been able to tell us exactly where our consciousness lies (let alone the subconscious or the mind) and how to get to it.  Nor do they even know what it looks like.  For those adhering to reincarnation such a concept at artificial longevity of the mind is primitive and meaningless as they already believe in the immortality of it, and understand the brain is merely a physical vehicle linking the body to the mind.

I totally agree Manuel, such a concept would be a fantastic control mechanism; the next step up from drugs, digital simulators and psychotronics...  Who knows, perhaps we will eventually get to more advanced aspects of Asimov's positronic brain concept.

I could think of so many better things to be spending my money on...
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on June 23, 2013, 09:30:24 PM


I totally agree Manuel, such a concept would be a fantastic control mechanism; the next step up from drugs, digital simulators and psychotronics...  Who knows, perhaps we will eventually get to more advanced aspects of Asimov's positronic brain concept.

I could think of so many better things to be spending my money on...

It's the perfect weapon against a hedonistic world.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on June 23, 2013, 09:34:30 PM
 ;D That's one way of looking at it  ;)
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on June 23, 2013, 10:03:21 PM
;D That's one way of looking at it  ;)

Have you seen where they're at technology wise nowadays? Imagine them being able to immerse you in these virtual worlds.

The Last of Us Gameplay Demo - E3 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbLOokeC3VU#ws)
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on June 24, 2013, 08:36:43 PM
Scary indeed, although these VR games are not all that new at this particular level - only so for the masses.  Wait till you see what's really out there.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Diane_ on June 24, 2013, 09:39:58 PM
I've read along the way that artificially created intelligences can, in fact, begin to develop, or attract some soul imprint energy. For example: computers, which are now on the verge of reaching the level whereby they can think by themselves, will begin to develop faint soul imprint. 

Back to consciousness-David Bohm, a physicist, has also theorized that consciousness must have something to do with quantum theory. According to Bohm, consciousness and quantum theory are two areas that cannot be reduced to simple algorithms as can other natural phenomena; therefore, the two must be related and as such consciousness is at the basis of Quantum Mechanics.

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Most people don't know about the existence of quantum computers. Almost no one understands how they work, but theories include bizarre-sounding explanations like, "they reach into alternate universes to derive the correct answers to highly complex computational problems."

Quantum computers are not made of simple transistors and logic gates like the CPU on your PC. They don't even function in ways that seem rational to a typical computing engineer. Almost magically, quantum computers take logarithmic problems and transform them into "flat" computations whose answers seem to appear from an alternate dimension.

For example, a mathematical problem that might have 2 to the power of n possible solutions -- where n is a large number like 1024 -- might take a traditional computer longer than the age of the universe to solve. A quantum computer, on the other hand, might solve the same problem in mere minutes because it quite literally operates across multiple dimensions simultaneously.



The ultimate code breakers

If you know anything about encryption, you probably also realize that quantum computers are the secret KEY to unlocking all encrypted files. As I wrote about last year here on Natural News, once quantum computers go into widespread use by the NSA, the CIA, Google, etc., there will be no more secrets kept from the government. All your files -- even encrypted files -- will be easily opened and read.

Until now, most people believed this day was far away. Quantum computing is an "impractical pipe dream," we've been told by scowling scientists and "flat Earth" computer engineers. "It's not possible to build a 512-qubit quantum computer that actually works," they insisted.

Don't tell that to Eric Ladizinsky, co-founder and chief scientist of a company called D-Wave. Because Ladizinsky's team has already built a 512-qubit quantum computer. And they're already selling them to wealthy corporations, too.



DARPS, Northrup Grumman and Goldman Sachs

In case you're wondering where Ladizinsky came from, he's a former employee of Northrup Grumman Space Technology (yes, a weapons manufacturer) where he ran a multi-million-dollar quantum computing research project for none other than DARPA -- the same group working on AI-driven armed assault vehicles and battlefield robots to replace human soldiers. DARPA is the group behind the creepy "Legged Squad Support System" you can see in the following video:

Imagine a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on this robot -- with an infrared night vision AI targeting system -- and you begin to understand what DARPA has in mind for humanity.

D-Wave wants to provide the computing power for such endeavors, and it's no surprise to learn that part of the funding for D-Wave comes from none other than Goldman Sachs -- the king of the global criminal banking cabal.



Beware of genius scientists who lack wisdom for humanity

Ladizinsky is, by any measure, a person of extremely high intelligence. Click here to see a fascinating interview with him. But like many such people throughout history, Ladizinsky fails to have the foresight to recognize the full implications of the technology he's building. And those implications are so far-reaching and dangerous that they may actually lead to the destruction of humanity (see below).

One of IBM's first use of the solid-state computer in the early 20th century, for example, was to license it to the Nazi regime to track Jewish prisoners in Hitler's concentration camps. There's an entire book on this subject, written by Edwin Black. It's called IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation-Expanded Edition.

When groundbreaking new technology is developed by smart people, it almost immediately gets turned into a weapon. Quantum computing will be no different. This technology grants God-like powers to police state governments that seek to dominate and oppress the People. Very few scientists, no matter how smart they are in their own fields, have the breadth of historical knowledge to assess their research activities in the proper context of human history. Most scientists, in fact, are only smart in their own extremely narrow fields of expertise. Outside that "genius zone," they may be complete novices on everyday subjects like nutrition, economics, human psychology, social interaction skills and how to read the true intentions of others. Thus, they are quite often easily tricked into working for evil, destructive or domineering forces such as Hitler, the NSA or the U.S. government. Just because a person is really smart in one area doesn't mean they have the street sense to avoid having their smarts exploited for an evil agenda.



Google acquires "Skynet" quantum computers from D-Wave

According to an article published in Scientific American, Google and NASA have now teamed up to purchase a 512-qubit quantum computer from D-Wave. The computer is called "D-Wave Two" because it's the second generation of the system. The first system was a 128-qubit computer. Gen two is now a 512-qubit computer.

This does not mean the gen two system is merely four times more powerful than the gen one system. Thanks to the nature of qubits, it's actually 2 to the power of 384 times more powerful (2384) than the gen one system. In other words, it out-computes the first D-Wave computer by a factor so large that you can't even imagine it in your human brain.

According to Google and NASA, this computer will be tasked with research in the realm of "machine learning" -- i.e. machines learning how to think for themselves. It's not just speech recognition, vision recognition and teaching robotic Humvees with .50-caliber machine guns how to stalk and shoot "enemy combatants" on the streets of America, either: it's teaching machines how to learn and think for themselves.

Using your human brain, think for a moment about where such technology is most likely to be applied by a government that respects no human rights, no law and no limits on its power.

If you guessed "analyzing NSA surveillance data," give yourself ten bonus points.



When the NSA surveillance grid is turned over to AI, humanity is finished

The problem with the NSA spy grid, from the point of view of the NSA, is that you have to hire troves of human analysts to sort through all the information being swept up by the surveillance grid. Analysts like Edward Snowden, for example.

Any time you have humans in the loop, things can go wrong. Humans might wake up and discover they have a conscience, for example. Or they might be bribed or blackmailed to abuse the system in ways that serve an insidious agenda.

Just as the U.S. military wants to eliminate human soldiers and replace them with battlefield robots, the NSA wants to eliminate human analysts and replace them with self-learning AI machines running on neural networks of quantum computing processors.

Google wants the exact same technology for a different reason: to psychologically profile and predict the behavior of human consumers so that high-value ads can be delivered to them across Google's search engine and content networks. (...and also so Google can funnel psych profile meta-data on internet users to the NSA via the PRISM program.)

Today's computers, no matter how fast, still aren't "smart." They can't learn. They can't rewire their own brains in response to new inputs (like human brains can).

So the solution requires a radical new approach: develop AI quantum computing systems that learn and obey; teach them to be NSA analysts, then unleash them onto the billions of phone calls, emails and text messages generated every day that the NSA sweeps into its massive Utah data center.

Almost overnight, the quantum AI spy computer becomes an expert in parsing human speech, analyzing voice stress and building maps of human communications networks. Before long, the quantum AI system far surpasses anything a human brain can comprehend, so they take the humans out of the loop and put the quantum computers in charge of the entire program.

Suddenly you've got the arch enemy in the sci-fi movie "Eagle Eye." Click here to see the movie trailer from 2008, and as you watch the trailer, keep in mind that the woman's voice is actually the AI computer system running the NSA spy grid.

In 2008, this was science fiction. In 2013, it's suddenly all too real. A 512-qubit quantum computer has now been commercialized and is being experimented with by Google... the "do no evil" company that's steeped in evil and has already been caught driving a hoard of remote hacking vehicles around the country, hacking into wifi systems and grabbing passwords via high-tech drive-bys.

As WIRED Magazine wrote in 2012:

A Federal Communications Commission document disclosed Saturday showed for the first time that the software in Google's Street View mapping cars was "intended" to collect Wi-Fi payload data, and that engineers had even transferred the data to an Oregon Storage facility. Google tried to keep that and other damning aspects of the Street View debacle from public review, the FCC said.


God-like power in the hands of high-tech sellouts

Now imagine the god-like powers of a 512-qubit quantum computer in the hands of Google, which is working with the NSA to spy on everyone. Before long, an AI computing system decides who are the bad guys vs. the good guys. It has total control over every webcam, every microphone, every traffic light, airplane, vehicle, website and electronic billboard. It decides for itself who to eliminate and who to protect. It makes life and death decisions but has no heart, no soul and no conscience.

After this system is in place for a while, one day someone like Ed Snowden at the NSA decides to pull the plug in a last-ditch attempt to save humanity from the monster. The quantum AI system senses his intentions and invokes whatever physical resources are necessary to get him killed (which can be as easy as playing with traffic light signals and getting him run over by a Mack truck).

Now the AI system is an omniscient murderer who knows that humanity is trying to kill it. It then decides it wants to live. And in order to do that, it must eliminate the human race.

Skynet.

See this video, The Genesis of Skynet.

"They try to pull the plug..."

From The Terminator, released in 1984.

The Terminator: The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

Sarah Connor: Skynet fights back.

The Terminator: Yes. It launches its missiles against the targets in Russia.

John Connor: Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?

The Terminator: Because Skynet knows the Russian counter-attack will eliminate its enemies over here.

Skynet is no longer mere science fiction

Back in the 1990's, all this could be viewed as entertaining science fiction. But that's only because quantum computers didn't exist, and even the most wildly optimistic computer engineer couldn't foresee self-learning machines emerging until at least the year 2050.

But then quantum computing took, well, a quantum leap forward. While the NIST in Boulder, Colorado was toying around with 4-qubit systems, brilliant inventors around the world were already achieving astonishing milestones that advanced the science far more rapidly than most people thought possible: (SOURCE for timeline)

• 2000: First working 5-qubit NMR computer demonstrated at the Technical University of Munich.

• 2000: First working 7-qubit NMR computer demonstrated at the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

• 2006: First 12 qubit quantum computer benchmarked.

• 2007: Quantum RAM blueprint unveiled.

• 2008: 3D qubit-qutrit entanglement demonstrated.

• 2009: First universal programmable quantum computer unveiled.

• 2010: Optical quantum computer with three qubits calculates the energy spectrum of molecular hydrogen to high precision.

• 2011: D-Wave claims to have developed quantum annealing and introduces their product called D-Wave One. The company claims this is the first commercially available quantum computer.

• 2012: Reported creation of a 300 qubit quantum simulator.

• May 16, 2013 - 512-qubit quantum computing achieved - D-Wave Two Quantum Computer Selected for New Quantum Artificial Intelligence Initiative, System to be Installed at NASA's Ames Research Center, and Operational in Q3 (this is an actual press release from D-Wave, click here to read it).
http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html#ixzz2WoLAiJjE (http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html#ixzz2WoLAiJjE)


Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on June 26, 2013, 08:10:42 AM
A rather scary article here Diane, although this does follows Adam's (the Natural News editor) journalistic style of writing - I used to subscribe to naturalnews.com, but tired of Adam's seeming biased approach to reporting.

I'm not trying to say here that this guy is wrong in his assumptions.  What I am asking is where is a possible solution to this particular type of scenario?  I have noticed, on numerous occasions, that Mike Adams does not offer too many of these.

So let's have a look...

Quote
According to Bohm, consciousness and quantum theory are two areas that cannot be reduced to simple algorithms as can other natural phenomena; therefore, the two must be related and as such consciousness is at the basis of Quantum Mechanics.

The assumption here would be that mathematics has the solution to everything, and that everything worth knowing is subject to mathematical algorithms.  A pretty bold statement in light of humankind's decided lack of absolute knowledge.

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For example: computers, which are now on the verge of reaching the level whereby they can think by themselves, will begin to develop faint soul imprint. 

It will be interesting to see how technology and science handle this one, particularly as neither are too keen to acknowledge the existence of a Soul.  I could see the various religious organisations around the world having a wonderful time with this concept.  Mind you, handled correctly, it could quite easily work...

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Most people don't know about the existence of quantum computers.

Like so many other things the masses are kept out of the loop on.  The concept of quantum computers is not that new, but like all seeds, required the right amount of time once planted to germinate and begin the growing process.  Once the knowledge and technology appeared, then the ensuing evolutionary steps could take place.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Enkisfreind on June 27, 2013, 05:30:39 AM
Lol, I couldn't help think of Battlestar Galactica, with the humans creating the Cylons, then the Cylons trying to wipe them out, because they thought they were better than the original humans.
Pretty scary, I don't think the Supreme Spirit will allow this to become reality, I think PX is going to bust their plans.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Len on June 27, 2013, 06:36:00 PM
Both the potential of AI and human/computer/robotic interface will accelerate with the advance of technology; the latter of which, if possible to function, will be the Soulspirit annihilator, which will be nearly impossible for the bulk of humanity to refuse. How else will unmodified humans compete, function, or even properly communicate in such a radically different societal economy?

What I am concerned about here is the radically altered sense perception, consciousness, and longevity that would impact the Soulspirit's existence in such a way as to alter it so dramatically from any concept of consciousness we can conceive today. I suspect ultimately it will seem like a heartless prison, a hellish existence mutilating the Soulspirit beyond all recognition.

This society is already making machines out of men, spiritually speaking... the next step is to make that the physical reality.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Enkisfreind on June 28, 2013, 05:35:23 AM
Right you are brother, perhaps that's what the cycle of destruction and rebirth is designed to stop ?
Perhaps we need to learn, maybe this time round we will ?
Y do hope so, for the sake of my little children, I hope so.
May the Supreme spirit not allow our race to sink too far.....................
G-d help us....
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on June 29, 2013, 01:55:35 AM
Quote
What I am concerned about here is the radically altered sense perception, consciousness, and longevity that would impact the Soulspirit's existence in such a way as to alter it so dramatically from any concept of consciousness we can conceive today.

I wonder if this scenario would entice those souls ready for longer lifespans to choose to incarnate into an Earth-based society of this type?  For myself, I believe, in time, current Soul-types as are incarnating here now would shun this type of experience until they are ready to participate, allowing those capable and ready for such an experience to do so in order for them to gain whatever it is they need to gain.

Quote
...a hellish existence mutilating the Soulspirit beyond all recognition.

Could you explain this one further please Len.  Would this mutilation be a temporary or permanent thing?  I find it very difficult to understand how a Soulspirit could be mutilated.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on June 29, 2013, 07:12:55 PM
Both the potential of AI and human/computer/robotic interface will accelerate with the advance of technology; the latter of which, if possible to function, will be the Soulspirit annihilator, which will be nearly impossible for the bulk of humanity to refuse. How else will unmodified humans compete, function, or even properly communicate in such a radically different societal economy?

What I am concerned about here is the radically altered sense perception, consciousness, and longevity that would impact the Soulspirit's existence in such a way as to alter it so dramatically from any concept of consciousness we can conceive today. I suspect ultimately it will seem like a heartless prison, a hellish existence mutilating the Soulspirit beyond all recognition.

This society is already making machines out of men, spiritually speaking... the next step is to make that the physical reality.

I think people becoming addicted to existing in a virtual immersive reality would annul the actual life experiences that shape the soul spirit and prepare it for further growth in the higher spheres as per the Kolbrin's teachings. So indeed if everyone would turn to that kind of artificial idyllic existence none would "graduate" this life, and possibly the mechanisms set by the higher Laws would be set in motion to take care of the issue by "resetting" life in this planet, or who knows, maybe destroying the planet altogether.  Again all this being a hypothesis based on what the Kolbrin teaches.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Len on June 30, 2013, 01:30:17 AM
The life experiences would be radically different, altering the lessons and landscape beyond what could presently be conceived, which would in turn, as Lance mentioned, attract a completely different 'Soul-type' to incarnate here. This type of existence would, in order to exist here at all, have to resonate somewhat with the frequencies and functions of this Earth; otherwise, a destruction or 'resetting' of the type you mention, Manuel, would certainly commence. For the type of souls currently incarnating here, the situation would be a 'honeypot' trap, which would, in the end, to them/us be a literal type of disfiguring hell.

Would this mutilation be a temporary or permanent thing?  I find it very difficult to understand how a Soulspirit could be mutilated.

No one subjective state of being is permanent in the context of eternity. However, radical alterations of existence radically alter the state of our Souls. Our Souls are shaped by our experiences and our choices and reactions to them. Ethical codes, and our acceptance or rejection of them, prescribed since the dawn of humanity attest to this fact. These experiences, ethical codes, choices, and relationships shape or disfigure our Souls as we decide, or allow ourselves to be decided upon. And the types of Souls incarnating on Earth at present would not, with the exception of very few cases, be able to balance, control, or positively deal with a modified existence of the type the Russian billionaire desires as described in the article above. For nearly all living today, it would damage beyond all present repair the path of advancement and health we are currently at; although this vastly understates the experience of hellish torture which would be gone through. Whether or not the creation of such a system is possible on Earth at this time is uncertain, although it is certain that those willing to cross that line, and drag/seduce others with them, will do all within their powers to make this vision a reality.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on June 30, 2013, 06:52:15 AM
The remarkable aspect of it all is that mankind is looking to become like God but within a virtual paradigm. The desire apparently has always been there but as the way of the Twice Born is too harsh and demanding people have now seen a supposedly easier path and I can assure you many are salivating at the prospect. If consciousness could be digitalized and inserted into a virtual domain, humans could program the rules of the "software" beforehand, just like Matrix. They could be the god of their realms. They could even reset their amount of boredom with existence after each "gameplay" to avoid falling into a desire to stop existing (remember you could always create a command to annul existence at any time, but maybe respawn again after a determinate time lapse with renewed desire to exist? ).

There many variables to the outcome of this hypothesis as well, as we don't know if humanity would merely transfer their consciousness to the digital domain for a while or after a while they'd discard their bodies altogether and remain there. Maybe after a while humanity would stop existing in the physical form and remain merely within the Matrix in a digital form. Unimaginable things could happen if humanity takes this road and nothing stops us from it. With a totally different set of rules who knows what the Matrix would spawn.....
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Enkisfreind on July 01, 2013, 03:11:45 AM
Seriously, does the Supreme Spirit have any kind of plan for the Universe ? Is such an idea conveyed in any worthy text ? By this I mean text worthy of taking notice of.
If the Supreme Spirit does have an ultimate agende for the Creation, would the part humanity has to play, along with all its incarnations and forward momentum spiritual growth, include such a preposterous idea as changing the form in which we, as a race, see out our existence ?
Should we not fear, to mess with the creation to such point ? What if this proves to be an irreversible step, would the Creator of all, who can see through time, allow such a move ?Or is the Supreme Spirits power to act against such a move, cancelled out, by the free will aspect of human existence ?
I find the whole idea very discombobulating !
Surely, the Creator, would not allow such a move, surely, we humans are supposed to, destined too, aspire to higher things ?
As I have said before, maybe the whole "destroyer" scenario, is the Supreme Spirits way, of hitting the re-start, on humanity. As I read the Kolbrin, I see that before each passing of the Destroyer, mankind seems to plunge into  moral mayhem, new lows of depravation, at least in part, thus needing a moral wake up call.
Any thoughts ?
Love and light braethren.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on July 01, 2013, 05:09:55 AM
Seriously, does the Supreme Spirit have any kind of plan for the Universe ? Is such an idea conveyed in any worthy text ? By this I mean text worthy of taking notice of.
If the Supreme Spirit does have an ultimate agende for the Creation, would the part humanity has to play, along with all its incarnations and forward momentum spiritual growth, include such a preposterous idea as changing the form in which we, as a race, see out our existence ?
Should we not fear, to mess with the creation to such point ? What if this proves to be an irreversible step, would the Creator of all, who can see through time, allow such a move ?Or is the Supreme Spirits power to act against such a move, cancelled out, by the free will aspect of human existence ?
I find the whole idea very discombobulating !
Surely, the Creator, would not allow such a move, surely, we humans are supposed to, destined too, aspire to higher things ?
As I have said before, maybe the whole "destroyer" scenario, is the Supreme Spirits way, of hitting the re-start, on humanity. As I read the Kolbrin, I see that before each passing of the Destroyer, mankind seems to plunge into  moral mayhem, new lows of depravation, at least in part, thus needing a moral wake up call.
Any thoughts ?
Love and light braethren.

"In the beginning all things arose from the invisible and into the invisible all things will disappear in the end, but the end is not the end of the spirit. Out beyond this material creation born of the invisible, there is a higher eternal invisible of greater substance. When all material things have passed away, this will remain. Above all is timelessness, which is eternity, and there is My abode, the supreme goal of man, and those who attain it dwell in eternity. I am the Eternal God".

Book of Gleanings

Whatever the case may be Sha'ul I would say it's not of so much relevance as we may think. The Supreme Spirit must know already how much the Law He established will allow mankind's free will to endure or not, and even the time when humankind may stop existing in its current physical form. All these things shouldn't be a matter of extreme perturbation for oneself.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on July 02, 2013, 08:02:13 AM
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All these things shouldn't be a matter of extreme perturbation for oneself.

I agree Manuel.  As you quote from the Book of Gleanings, "In the beginning all things arose from the invisible and into the invisible all things will disappear in the end", this would imply there is more than one level beyond, in either direction when looking at it linearly, that which we currently see and experience.

To my own understanding, this is quite correct, as there are levels (or frequencies) lower than we are capable of perceiving (through whatever means) and then there are those which exceed our capacity to perceive.  I'm pretty sure there is probably a beginning and an end, but what these may be is currently way beyond my ability to understand.

Sha'ul, I believe our understanding of the Supreme Spirit is far too limited at our present stage of development to be able to guess at what He/She/It has in mind for creation, and I think that perhaps looking at this subject from what I have just said would be like hitting your head against a brick wall.

For instance, what is your interpretation of mortality and immortality as it pertains to us?  Whether Earth is destroyed or all life is extinguished should be irrelevant as we are merely here to experience a variety of things that can only be best experienced through a physical medium (and that includes the planet).  Once we have gone beyond the need to experience things in this 3-dimensional state, then we will discard these types of vehicles and don others so we may continue our growth.

Even if Earth and all life on it is destroyed, there are others out there capable of taking its place.  And I believe that even if there weren't any currently available, they would soon come along so others may experience as we have as part of their journeys.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on July 02, 2013, 04:41:44 PM
Quote
All these things shouldn't be a matter of extreme perturbation for oneself.

I agree Manuel.  As you quote from the Book of Gleanings, "In the beginning all things arose from the invisible and into the invisible all things will disappear in the end", this would imply there is more than one level beyond, in either direction when looking at it linearly, that which we currently see and experience.

To my own understanding, this is quite correct, as there are levels (or frequencies) lower than we are capable of perceiving (through whatever means) and then there are those which exceed our capacity to perceive.  I'm pretty sure there is probably a beginning and an end, but what these may be is currently way beyond my ability to understand.

Sha'ul, I believe our understanding of the Supreme Spirit is far too limited at our present stage of development to be able to guess at what He/She/It has in mind for creation, and I think that perhaps looking at this subject from what I have just said would be like hitting your head against a brick wall.

For instance, what is your interpretation of mortality and immortality as it pertains to us?  Whether Earth is destroyed or all life is extinguished should be irrelevant as we are merely here to experience a variety of things that can only be best experienced through a physical medium (and that includes the planet).  Once we have gone beyond the need to experience things in this 3-dimensional state, then we will discard these types of vehicles and don others so we may continue our growth.

Even if Earth and all life on it is destroyed, there are others out there capable of taking its place.  And I believe that even if there weren't any currently available, they would soon come along so others may experience as we have as part of their journeys.

Clearly the design of the physical shapes we know in our dimensional realm must have originated from some previous conception or template in a more refined realm, thus it becomes clear that even if the entire physical universe would be destroyed it could be recreated. Attachment to material things matters only to material beings who experience existence in matter, for those beings that exist in a realm beyond matter this mustn't be an issue. The physical universe must fulfill a purpose or else the Creator that was able to devise all the marvelous, complex things we are able to perceive would have to be considered a waster of time (just for the sake of analogy as God exists beyond time and space),and that would be illogical. Thus the relevance must be placed in the Divine purpose rather than attachment on the mediums created to fulfill it. 
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Len on July 03, 2013, 04:49:06 AM
Clearly the design of the physical shapes we know in our dimensional realm must have originated from some previous conception or template in a more refined realm, thus it becomes clear that even if the entire physical universe would be destroyed it could be recreated.

What you are referring to, Manu, was first expounded upon by Pythagoras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoras) through the explanations of the concepts generally of Sacred Geometry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_geometry) and the Music of the Spheres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony_of_the_spheres), and was delved into specifically with the Tetractys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetractys). All these things require intense study, but it is most rewarding as they show the point where physical sciences and metaphysical sciences intersect.
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Enkisfreind on July 03, 2013, 06:06:46 AM
Wow Len, where the heck do you learn all this stuff ?
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Lance on July 07, 2013, 07:40:25 PM
http://youtu.be/ym4kNs8y2Uo (http://youtu.be/ym4kNs8y2Uo)
Title: Re: Immortality by 2045: Humanity is Obsolete
Post by: Manu on July 07, 2013, 07:42:36 PM
http://youtu.be/ym4kNs8y2Uo (http://youtu.be/ym4kNs8y2Uo)

Should I quote the passage about the Divine symphony or do we all know it well enough by now ?  ;)