Culdian Forums

Culdian Literature => Kolbrin/Kailedy => Topic started by: Len on October 21, 2015, 04:28:21 PM

Title: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 21, 2015, 04:28:21 PM
http://grahamhancock.com/whitemany1/ (http://grahamhancock.com/whitemany1/)

Perhaps the most detailed scholarly piece, and certainly most high-profile article on The Kolbrin has been published this week in the article section on Graham Hancock's website written by perhaps the most driven and thorough Kolbrin researcher I know, Yvonne Whiteman. (Much of Yvonne's, and others', additional Kolbrin research may be found right here on the Culdian Forums.)

This article is extraordinarily well researched, and I expect this is a prelude to a much larger scholarly book or books on the subject (by her, and perhaps others). Presently there is some speculation in the article which is not fully corroborated, but I do think it is fair for researchers to postulate incomplete hypotheses and theories until greater evidence comes to light.

Graham Hancock and his website is perhaps the most highly read "alternative history" focal point in the world today. This is pretty big news for fans of the Kolbrin, as it will undoubtedly greatly heighten the book's popularity. So, many of us may have some more friends soon…

Those of you who wish to share their own research on the material and on a variety of other subjects connected with this scholarly or historical research (including ethical, metaphysical, spiritual, and philosophical interests), feel free to join us and post your thoughts here, the Culdian Forums, or write any one of us privately.

(On a side note, Graham Hancock posted Yvonne's article on his own Facebook page, and has received a lot of traffic in way of comments. Those interested, can see here: https://www.facebook.com/Author.GrahamHancock/posts/10153706076067354 (https://www.facebook.com/Author.GrahamHancock/posts/10153706076067354) )
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: j373z on October 21, 2015, 07:37:03 PM
Many of the links that are supposed to lead to the sources are dead or just lead to the index page.

„Is India’s ancient varna/caste system with its dalit/‘untouchables’ – a system with unknown roots over 3,000 years old – a trace of the genetic taboo mentioned in the Kolbrin? (www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins (http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins), 8 Aug 2013)]“

page not found

„The late Professor Ilia Vekua with giant-size bones from 2008 expedition in Georgia (source)“

leads to the index page

„Homo floresiensis reeconstructed (source)“

leads to the index page

„Legendary neckless man from a race which Greek geographer Strabo called the Blemmyes (source)“

leads to the index page of a forum called heroes community


I dont want to attack anybody here, but this is not what i would call academic research.
Here i found another source of the genetic study of indian population mixture

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/genetics-proves-indian-population-mixture-8-8-13 (https://hms.harvard.edu/news/genetics-proves-indian-population-mixture-8-8-13)
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 21, 2015, 08:24:54 PM
Dead web links are not a mark of poor scholarship, they are a result of well... different people having an ownership of different sites that take things down or let their tech lag. I have seen dead web links out of online medical journals from peer reviewed studies recognized the world over. But the fact that their links have died has not invalidated their research. If you wish to claim this, attack the conclusions and research itself, if you would please.

Much of the research in this article, and parts of the article itself, was written long before this was put together in this form on Hancock's site. I have no doubt Yvonne simply did not recheck the links she previously saved, assuming they'd still be fine. I will inform her of the dead links, and I'm sure these issues will be corrected.

But I do look forward to a more detailed critique, should you have one.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: j373z on October 22, 2015, 05:49:59 AM
Dead web links are not a mark of poor scholarship

I didn't say that with one word and it can happen of course, especially when linking to external websites. And it seems there is just missing a '.html' at the end of the link.
But if none or almost none of the links lead to the referred information source, then i really start to doubt the thoroughness one put in his or her work. Source analysis is an important thing, especially with historic research.
So don't shoot the messenger please.

I will inform her of the dead links, and I'm sure these issues will be corrected.

Good, i think that would be best.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 22, 2015, 06:05:52 AM
Please forgive me j, if I was too strong or forceful in my response to you. I just didn't want anybody to get the impression that Yvonne was not doing her homework in regards to research on the subject.

What I failed to mention to you in my previous post, is that you should really be thanked for spotting out this error. I have literally read hundreds of comments on Facebook and the source page for the article, and you are the first person that has noticed this. So really, kudos to your eye for detail!

The fact is, I have worked with Yvonne behind the scenes in this forum helping her to post some of her material. And I can say from first-hand experience, she really does do her homework. On the other hand, she has needed a lot of assistance in posting pictures and needed help with other technical matters related to the website. You could say that she has some technical challenges in this regard, and is not at all Internet or computer savvy.

Thanks again, j!
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: j373z on October 22, 2015, 12:01:22 PM
I can see that your strong reaction comes from a personal involvement and interest in the authors reputation and well being, so i will not blame you for your emotional reaction. As i said before, it was not my intention to attack or even discredit her. I really want to prevent vexation in retrospect. And i am interested in the elaborated subjects of course. Neither do i know Graham Hancock, his website, nor do i use facebook, so i cannot say anything about the audiences or their scholarly interest. But i do know that you make yourself vulnerable when you do not stick to certain guidelines, like correct indication of source. As for the eye for detail.. that's where the devil is they say.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 22, 2015, 12:14:07 PM
Must agree with all of that, j, except no emotional reaction on my part should be implied or inferred. Sometimes I come off as strong and maybe overbearing in general, but it really isn't personal.

As I've said, I am personally aware of Yvonne's research standards, and so you may be too if you look at some of the research threads on this forum. (I would be curious as to your commentary on those.) And lack of such a standard cannot be assumed by broken links.

And, truly, nothing about the research itself has really been put into question in substance. Your gripe, while valid, is something on the periphery, and any background sources for these claims may be  searched for on one's own, should the desire be there.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Manu on October 22, 2015, 06:12:53 PM
Yvonne is simply not computer savvy, that's all. She probably doesn't know about the intricacies of URL's and that sort of thing. The caste system link is simply missing an html at the end, but the rest are lacking the complete URL.  Hopefully she actually has the complete links somewhere to edit them and stop the complaints.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: j373z on October 23, 2015, 09:03:46 AM
Must agree with all of that, j, except no emotional reaction on my part should be implied or inferred

ok, maybe to much interpretation from my side. Please excuse it.


Here i have some questions and comments i put between the text:

"No-one knows what the word ‘Kolbrin’ means. It’s probably a garbled version of the Welsh word Coelbren, meaning either the name of a village south-west of the Brecon Beacons National Park, or Coelbren y Beirdd, a supposed ‘druidic’ alphabet allegedly invented by the writer Iolo Morganwg (1747-1826) whose validity has been questioned by scholars. Some have suggested that Iolo Morganwg himself forged the Kolbrin, but my research says no" (What did your research reveal here?)


"[...] we know that the manuscripts were looked after by a group called the Culdians who were descended from a 14th-century Scottish community led by a man called John Culdy" (I can not find any information on a John Culdy who lived at that time. That of course does not mean that he never existed, but how do you know this? What is your source here except the introduction of the Kolbrin?).

"The text was modernised in the late 19th/early 20th century, incorporating some salvaged Celtic manuscripts which had not been transcribed on to metal plates, known as the Coelbook. We also know that for a period of time the Kolbrin was buried under a stone cairn in the mountains of Wales." (We know? Who is the narrative here and how do you know?)

"During the 1920s and 1930s these books were kept by a little-known religious group. During World War II the books were thrown out as worthless junk, then salvaged." (Source?)

" [...] I have been researching here, there and everywhere to find links with other ancient works and locate archaeological and DNA evidence" (A reputable but unrewarding effort it seems)

"The underlying story
Beneath its overriding metaphysical texts The Kolbrin carries an underlying story – and it’s a fascinating one, with its themes of genetics, global catastrophes and the search for immortality. Below is a rough outline story I have patched together from the various books. Every scrap of information you read has been gleaned from the Egyptian and Celtic books, with brief links in red to a few of the more important discoveries and identifications made since the publication of the Kolbrin in 1994."

I will not comment any of the follwing text as the author already stated that the information has been gleaned from the kolbrin.
Except this:


"1- The late Professor Ilia Vekua with giant-size bones from 2008 expedition in Georgia"

I went to the stated source (http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/ (http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/)) and searched for Ilia Vekua. No results. Internet search revealed someone with that name. Ilya Vekua was a distinguished Georgian mathematician, specializing in partial differential equations, singular integral equations, generalized analytic functions and the mathematical theory of elastic shells. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilia_Vekua (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilia_Vekua))
There is no work and no study that connects him to Paleoanthropology (a detailed list of his work can be found here http://www.viam.science.tsu.ge/profiles/Ilia_Vekua (http://www.viam.science.tsu.ge/profiles/Ilia_Vekua))

I found a website with an interesting email communication. Heres the noteworthy mail:


From: Marc Meyer [mailto:Marc.Meyer@chaffey.edu]
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2011 8:38 AM
To: Terje Dahl
Subject: RE: Georgia large bones
No such bones exist. Lee Berger is referring to robust bones - not the bones of giant humans. No such bones have ever been found anywhere. There is no evidence that such a race has ever existed. Photoshop is a great tool for falsifying images on the internet - but there are no such physical remains. If a single bone of a giant had ever been found it would be front page news and science would thoroughly examine and report on the findings. The fact that some obscure website is the only evidence for such a discovery should suggest to you that this is nonsense. Unless it's a massive conspiracy to suppress evidence, this is pure silliness. But there is no reason for a cover-up or conspiracy to hide this kind of evidence because this would be important, newsworthy, and the scientist who finds such evidence would become a household name - like Howard Carter who discovered the tomb of King Tut. I'm wondering; are you seeking confirmation for a biblical passage?
Marc R. Meyer, PhD
Dept. of Social & Behavioral Sciences
Chaffey College
5885 Haven Avenue
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91737
(tel) 909-652-6282

Source http://www.sydhav.no/giants/borjomi_georgia.htm (http://www.sydhav.no/giants/borjomi_georgia.htm)

"3- Legendary neckless man from a race which Greek geographer Strabo called the Blemmyes "

The source here leads to a gaming forum (http://heroescommunity.com/ (http://heroescommunity.com/)).: „So, What is the Heroes Community (HC, as we abbreviate)? 

Well, that is a question you should ask every member that visits the board every so often. It is truly one of the best forums that are

Not only it is one of the best forums on the net that are mostly dedicated to the never-ending Heroes of Might and Magic series, but also a forum of everlasting fun and immeasurable joy.“ (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=17938 (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=17938))
My search on the forum for blemmyes revealed „no posts that match the selected criteria.“

But there is a lot of evidence of a nubian tribe named blemmyes (Strabon, Geôgraphiká 17, 2; 17, 53)

Interesting is also this book https://books.google.de/books?id=Q1gX0IFEAFoC&pg=PA25&dq=blemmyer&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAmoVChMIu9juuZXXyAIVAzYaCh2HMgOg#v=onepage&q=blemmyer&f=false (https://books.google.de/books?id=Q1gX0IFEAFoC&pg=PA25&dq=blemmyer&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAmoVChMIu9juuZXXyAIVAzYaCh2HMgOg#v=onepage&q=blemmyer&f=false)
It is written in german. The author says here, that the blemmyes have been mentioned comparatively often in ancient sources. Altogether 68 texts that refer to the blemmyes. Starting from the 7th century BC to the 6th century AD. There are some mentions of  their appearance, but nothing very unusual. All of the headless stories seem to come from hearsay.
All of the well informed authors (Strabon, Olympiodor and Prokop) do not coincide with anything among themselves. Neither where they lived, how many there were, who their neighboors were or how they lived.
Mentionable is the final conclusion of the author. Something like: It can be said, that not behind every fantastic folk/tribe there exists an ethnicity in reality, but that names and odd imagination can immingle in the sources.

See also
http://www.academia.edu/4913748/Blemmyes_Noubades_and_the_Eastern_Desert_in_Late_Antiquity_Reassessing_the_Written_Sources (http://www.academia.edu/4913748/Blemmyes_Noubades_and_the_Eastern_Desert_in_Late_Antiquity_Reassessing_the_Written_Sources)
[/i]:

„Even if an ethnic like ‘Blemmyes’ is a fluid term that
stands for a more complex reality, it can be expected that certain tribes would have emphasized their solidarity in the face of the greater powers of the Nile Valley“

„I hope to have shown that the ethnic term ‘Blemmyes’
should be used with extreme care because it was used in a generalizing way by outsiders, whereas the term probably included a wide variety of different groups of people living between the Red Sea and the Nile Valley.“


My gripe and my complaints come solely out of interest in the truth and i will always oppose all else.
I will try to be more gentle in my expression of this in the future.



Edit: Some formatting changes
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 23, 2015, 10:33:56 AM
Now this ^^^ , j, is what I would call an excellent critique on sourcing issues!

I am not a Kolbrin researcher, in the historical sense, and nor do I wish to be. I only reluctantly put on that hat in the name of moderation and balance for either side, when there is no one else to stand up.

The value of the Kolbrin, for me, is the same as what it is as described in the publisher's introduction.

I look forward to a reply from Yvonne, either confirming her initial research with further evidence, or revising it with the considerations you have brought forward. This is how we keep research honest and accurate. So, thanks again!
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Manu on October 23, 2015, 05:37:57 PM
Now this ^^^ , j, is what I would call an excellent critique on sourcing issues!

I am not a Kolbrin researcher, in the historical sense, and nor do I wish to be. I only reluctantly put on that hat in the name of moderation and balance for either side, when there is no one else to stand up.

The value of the Kolbrin, for me, is the same as what it is as described in the publisher's introduction.

I look forward to a reply from Yvonne, either confirming her initial research with further evidence, or revising it with the considerations you have brought forward. This is how we keep research honest and accurate. So, thanks again!

I'm hoping Yvonne has the complete url's so we can actually read all those sources.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: j373z on October 23, 2015, 08:03:26 PM
I'm hoping Yvonne has the complete url's so we can actually read all those sources.

That would be great of course! Either way, there will be some kind of progress in this matter. And sometimes it is better to take a step back to be able to see things more clear-sighted. I will not ponder too much on the outcome here, because everything will be clarified in one way or another.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: vonbath on October 26, 2015, 05:16:34 AM
Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2015, 09:03:46 AM »
Quote from: Len on October 22, 2015, 12:14:07 PM
Must agree with all of that, j, except no emotional reaction on my part should be implied or inferred

ok, maybe to much interpretation from my side. Please excuse it.


Here i have some questions and comments i put between the text:

"No-one knows what the word ‘Kolbrin’ means. It’s probably a garbled version of the Welsh word Coelbren, meaning either the name of a village south-west of the Brecon Beacons National Park, or Coelbren y Beirdd, a supposed ‘druidic’ alphabet allegedly invented by the writer Iolo Morganwg (1747-1826) whose validity has been questioned by scholars. Some have suggested that Iolo Morganwg himself forged the Kolbrin, but my research says no."
 (What did your research reveal here?)

It’s what my research DIDN’T reveal that matters. How could Morganwyg have forged what DNA and archaeological evidence have only recently authenticated?


"[...] we know that the manuscripts were looked after by a group called the Culdians who were descended from a 14th-century Scottish community led by a man called John Culdy" (I can not find any information on a John Culdy who lived at that time. That of course does not mean that he never existed, but how do you know this? What is your source here except the introduction of the Kolbrin?).

You will note that in the section of my article headed ‘Reading the Kolbrin’, I say, ‘Well, according to the Introduction…’ Grammatically, this phrase is intended to apply to the succeeding paragraphs as well as to the paragraph in which it appears.

"The text was modernised in the late 19th/early 20th century, incorporating some salvaged Celtic manuscripts which had not been transcribed on to metal plates, known as the Coelbook. We also know that for a period of time the Kolbrin was buried under a stone cairn in the mountains of Wales." (We know? Who is the narrative here and how do you know?)

Ditto.

"During the 1920s and 1930s these books were kept by a little-known religious group. During World War II the books were thrown out as worthless junk, then salvaged." (Source?)

Ditto. A member of the Culdian Trust can affirm that the man who brought the documents over to New Zealand for her to put on the computer belonged to a hermetic society – but as I emphasise in the article, the provenance needs to be established and is a huge stumbling block. I never said it wasn't.

" [...] I have been researching here, there and everywhere to find links with other ancient works and locate archaeological and DNA evidence" (A reputable but unrewarding effort it seems).

Thank you for this… (Irony)

"The underlying story
Beneath its overriding metaphysical texts The Kolbrin carries an underlying story – and it’s a fascinating one, with its themes of genetics, global catastrophes and the search for immortality. Below is a rough outline story I have patched together from the various books. Every scrap of information you read has been gleaned from the Egyptian and Celtic books, with brief links in red to a few of the more important discoveries and identifications made since the publication of the Kolbrin in 1994."

I will not comment any of the follwing text as the author already stated that the information has been gleaned from the kolbrin.
Except this:

"1- The late Professor Ilia Vekua with giant-size bones from 2008 expedition in Georgia"

I went to the stated source (http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/ (http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/)) and searched for Ilia Vekua. No results. Internet search revealed someone with that name. Ilya Vekua was a distinguished Georgian mathematician, specializing in partial differential equations, singular integral equations, generalized analytic functions and the mathematical theory of elastic shells. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilia_Vekua (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilia_Vekua))
There is no work and no study that connects him to Paleoanthropology (a detailed list of his work can be found here http://www.viam.science.tsu.ge/profiles/Ilia_Vekua (http://www.viam.science.tsu.ge/profiles/Ilia_Vekua))

I found a website with an interesting email communication. Heres the noteworthy mail:

From: Marc Meyer [mailto:Marc.Meyer@chaffey.edu]
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2011 8:38 AM
To: Terje Dahl
Subject: RE: Georgia large bones
No such bones exist. Lee Berger is referring to robust bones - not the bones of giant humans. No such bones have ever been found anywhere. There is no evidence that such a race has ever existed. Photoshop is a great tool for falsifying images on the internet - but there are no such physical remains. If a single bone of a giant had ever been found it would be front page news and science would thoroughly examine and report on the findings. The fact that some obscure website is the only evidence for such a discovery should suggest to you that this is nonsense. Unless it's a massive conspiracy to suppress evidence, this is pure silliness. But there is no reason for a cover-up or conspiracy to hide this kind of evidence because this would be important, newsworthy, and the scientist who finds such evidence would become a household name - like Howard Carter who discovered the tomb of King Tut. I'm wondering; are you seeking confirmation for a biblical passage?
Marc R. Meyer, PhD
Dept. of Social & Behavioral Sciences
Chaffey College
5885 Haven Avenue
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91737
(tel) 909-652-6282

Source http://www.sydhav.no/giants/borjomi_georgia.htm (http://www.sydhav.no/giants/borjomi_georgia.htm)

"3- Legendary neckless man from a race which Greek geographer Strabo called the Blemmyes "

The source here leads to a gaming forum (http://heroescommunity.com/ (http://heroescommunity.com/)).: „So, What is the Heroes Community (HC, as we abbreviate)? 

Well, that is a question you should ask every member that visits the board every so often. It is truly one of the best forums that are

Not only it is one of the best forums on the net that are mostly dedicated to the never-ending Heroes of Might and Magic series, but also a forum of everlasting fun and immeasurable joy.“ (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=17938 (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=17938))
My search on the forum for blemmyes revealed „no posts that match the selected criteria.“

But there is a lot of evidence of a nubian tribe named blemmyes (Strabon, Geôgraphiká 17, 2; 17, 53)

Interesting is also this book https://books.google.de/books?id=Q1gX0IFEAFoC&pg=PA25&dq=blemmyer&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAmoVChMIu9juuZXXyAIVAzYaCh2HMgOg#v=onepage&q=blemmyer&f=false (https://books.google.de/books?id=Q1gX0IFEAFoC&pg=PA25&dq=blemmyer&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAmoVChMIu9juuZXXyAIVAzYaCh2HMgOg#v=onepage&q=blemmyer&f=false)
It is written in german. The author says here, that the blemmyes have been mentioned comparatively often in ancient sources. Altogether 68 texts that refer to the blemmyes. Starting from the 7th century BC to the 6th century AD. There are some mentions of  their appearance, but nothing very unusual. All of the headless stories seem to come from hearsay.
All of the well informed authors (Strabon, Olympiodor and Prokop) do not coincide with anything among themselves. Neither where they lived, how many there were, who their neighboors were or how they lived.
Mentionable is the final conclusion of the author. Something like: It can be said, that not behind every fantastic folk/tribe there exists an ethnicity in reality, but that names and odd imagination can immingle in the sources.

See alsohttp://www.academia.edu/4913748/Blemmyes_Noubades_and_the_Eastern_Desert_in_Late_Antiquity_Reassessing_the_Written_Sources[/i]:

„Even if an ethnic like ‘Blemmyes’ is a fluid term that
stands for a more complex reality, it can be expected that certain tribes would have emphasized their solidarity in the face of the greater powers of the Nile Valley“

„I hope to have shown that the ethnic term ‘Blemmyes’
should be used with extreme care because it was used in a generalizing way by outsiders, whereas the term probably included a wide variety of different groups of people living between the Red Sea and the Nile Valley.”

I refer you to the comment I have just put at the bottom of the article:

Yvonne Whiteman says:
It has been brought to my attention that a text reference and most of the picture sources I have given only lead to website home pages and not to the text/pictures themselves. Apologies for this. I now list the location references below. Please note that the picture of blemmyae is taken from a photographic library of images and not from an article on blemmyae, ditto the pic of Corineus and the giant. I chose the painting of the the parting of the Red Sea for its dramatic merit, since the alternative would be a Hollywood still. I myself took the photos marked ‘YW’. I will try and have these changes made in the article itself when possible.

TEXT REFERENCE
http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html (http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html)

PICTURE REFERENCES
http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2014/08/04/investigating-giants-giant-bones-georgian-caucuses/ (http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2014/08/04/investigating-giants-giant-bones-georgian-caucuses/)
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/origins/homo_floresiensis.php (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/origins/homo_floresiensis.php)
https://www.pinterest.com/minhocavaca/blemmyae/ (https://www.pinterest.com/minhocavaca/blemmyae/)
http://www.peoplepets.com/people/pets/article/0,,20655619,00.html (http://www.peoplepets.com/people/pets/article/0,,20655619,00.html)
https://arnemann.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/p1020594.jpg (https://arnemann.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/p1020594.jpg)
https://chinaproperty.co/pictures/parting-painting-parting-of-the (https://chinaproperty.co/pictures/parting-painting-parting-of-the)–by-jose-vega-the-dark-side-of-the-force-cool-parting-42506/
https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/ancient-egypt/akhenaten-and-nefertiti-the-beautiful/ (https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/ancient-egypt/akhenaten-and-nefertiti-the-beautiful/)
http://www.metmuseum.org/search-results?ft=pasinesu&x=0&y=0 (http://www.metmuseum.org/search-results?ft=pasinesu&x=0&y=0)
http://www.heritage-images.com/Preview/PreviewPage.aspx?id=2364903&licenseType=RM&from=search&back=2364903&orntn=2 (http://www.heritage-images.com/Preview/PreviewPage.aspx?id=2364903&licenseType=RM&from=search&back=2364903&orntn=2)
http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/305784/images/CEFN+CLAWDD%2C+CAIRN+II/ (http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/305784/images/CEFN+CLAWDD%2C+CAIRN+II/)




My gripe and my complaints come solely out of interest in the truth and i will always oppose all else.
I will try to be more gentle in my expression of this in the future.

Truth, eh?  Ask yourself whether you are any more authentic than you imagine the Kolbrin to be. After all, you conceal your identity behind the disguise ‘j373z’, which to me sounds remarkably like R2D2. No offence - this is merely an observation.

Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: j373z on October 26, 2015, 07:14:27 PM

It’s what my research DIDN’T reveal that matters. How could Morganwyg have forged what DNA and archaeological evidence have only recently authenticated?

He could have had access to source material from that time?
So basically your research didn't have anything to do with this finding. But your text gives the impression that you did find something of importance here („[...] my research says no.“).

You will note that in the section of my article headed ‘Reading the Kolbrin’, I say, ‘Well, according to the Introduction…’ Grammatically, this phrase is intended to apply to the succeeding paragraphs as well as to the paragraph in which it appears.

I do not want to doubt the intention, but on me it did not have the desired effect.
Syntax and semantics seem to support my impression, as 'to know' usually means to directly perceive something or to grasp something in the mind with clarity or certainty. As you stated above, you do not possess this kind of knowledge regarding the information given and are solely reffering to the introduction of the kolbrin. When you say „we know“, this surely gives another impression.

A member of the Culdian Trust can affirm that the man who brought the documents over to New Zealand for her to put on the computer belonged to a hermetic society – but as I emphasise in the article, the provenance needs to be established and is a huge stumbling block. I never said it wasn't.

I would be curious to know how she can affirm this (verbally, under oath? Does she have a copy of his member card?) or even how this would have any impact on the authenticity of the kolbrin.

Thank you for this… (Irony)

No irony intended.

I refer you to the comment I have just put at the bottom of the article:

Yvonne Whiteman says:
It has been brought to my attention that a text reference and most of the picture sources I have given only lead to website home pages and not to the text/pictures themselves. Apologies for this. I now list the location references below. Please note that the picture of blemmyae is taken from a photographic library of images and not from an article on blemmyae, ditto the pic of Corineus and the giant. I chose the painting of the the parting of the Red Sea for its dramatic merit, since the alternative would be a Hollywood still. I myself took the photos marked ‘YW’. I will try and have these changes made in the article itself when possible.

It seems you are unwilling to engage in a deeper discussion on your sources and the information they convey. Who is this Professor Ilia Vekua you are refering to?

Truth, eh?  Ask yourself whether you are any more authentic than you imagine the Kolbrin to be.

Actually i find myself to be on a par with a lot of the spiritual knowledge it projects. Truth that would not fade or lose its importance, even if the story regarding the provenance of the texts would turn out to be completely fictional. It would not diminish the truth at all.

After all, you conceal your identity behind the disguise ‘j373z’, which to me sounds remarkably like R2D2. No offence - this is merely an observation.

My name should not be of any importance here.
And if this is all you bring forward concerning my credibility or lack of such, then i am content with this.
May the force be with you.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 26, 2015, 11:44:39 PM
Thank you, Yvonne, for clearing up those picture source links.

It does not seem to me, j, that most of the pictures here directly relate to proof for the Kolbrin’s authenticity. Most of them seem to be used for the purpose of illustrating ideas or possibilities to what the Kolbrin may have meant with certain passages. When we look at drawings of Blemmyes, Moses parting the Red Sea in the context of the Destroyer, or a modern picture replica of Noah’s ark… these to me give a possible visible representation of what the Kolbrin may be choosing to convey according to Yvonne’s and others’ interpretation. (Regarding interpretation of the content itself, mystical or spiritual literature is highly symbolic, and when we have spiritual literature within an historic context, sometimes it may be difficult to separate an actual material event from a spiritual one. Yvonne gives her interpretation in places here from the standpoint of a hypothesis, subject to change with further proof or information.) Neither does the pictures she has taken herself prove the Kolbrin’s provenance, but rather, they are locations described in the Kolbrin that are believed to be shown in their modern settings. The locations Yvonne has tracked down, visited, or sleuthed modern place names to, are areas for potential further research that may yield clues and/or evidence which may possibly corroborate claims the Kolbrin makes, but which is currently lost to modern historians.

What I see in Yvonne’s article gives a background storied summery of the Kolbrin to lay readers whom have never heard of the book. Illustrations here are a visual aid to this process, so that readers may picture in their mind’s eye what they are reading. Beyond this storied summery is shared what we are told of its provenance from the publisher’s introduction, and what Yvonne has been told from the lady that originally typeset the book. Yvonne does not make any representation here that claims this as absolute proof for anything. She is merely explaining to the reader what the Kolbrin claims for itself and what those who brought it to light testify to. (This is similar to how a detective interviews witnesses and hunts down documents to solve any mystery. One witness, one document, or one material find may not solve the case… but the more clues, witnesses, and documents that are discovered may end up filling in the picture enough to solve the case.) The reader here may then decide whether the Kolbrin’s Introduction and publishers are telling the truth. In this, Yvonne is simply acting as a good reporter, relating to others what she has read and been told. Perhaps this testimony will provide future leads for researchers to gain better answers to the questions of provenance, perhaps not. Regardless, this information is documented for those who choose to look further into the matter.

Yvonne make clear towards the end of her article that her work isn’t finished with a call for others who may have more information to step forward and contact her.

As to Iolo Morganwg, Yvonne will have to elaborate her findings, or better relate what she meant with her reference to him. I believe Manu may also have some information relating to him in regards to the Kolbrin.

I trust Yvonne will correct me here if I left anything out, or misrepresented her purpose. But we do have a lot of breadcrumbs here, and are finding more all the time; the most exciting being the ones in which a new archaeological or scientific discovery matches specifically to minute and unlikely details recorded in the Kolbrin.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: vonbath on October 27, 2015, 03:11:18 AM
Graham Hancock asked me to put in a few pics because he thinks visuals make these articles more appealing. He uses his wife's photos to illustrate his work. I wish I could do something similar since, if I could use all my own photos, people would not suppose that the picture source websites form part of the argument.

It looks to me as if the photo of Professor Vekua is part of an honestly-meant travel piece. Nevertheless, this area of enquiry is stuffed with flaky, daffy and over-pedantic stuff, as you all know, and researching the Kolbrin involves wading through much mud and madness in order to have the occasional eureka moment.

There exists a post-modern belief that human beings have discovered everything there is to discover, and what we do now is merely to rework earlier thoughts - unless, of course, we are worshipping the great modern gods Science and Darwin. I detect an unconscious level of this everywhere, but will plough on none the less.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Manu on October 27, 2015, 06:19:22 AM
Regarding Lolo Morganwg, what I've found is that Alan Wilson's research has proven that the Coelbren alphabet was not a fabrication of Lolo, but was actually used in ancient times and Wilson and his colleagues have actually translated ancient texts that were written in Coelbren(in fact Coelbren seems to have been found also in America). So I reckon maybe more of the allegations against Lolo are possibly defamatory as well, perhaps in part due to an agenda to bury certain aspects of ancient British history.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: vonbath on October 28, 2015, 04:42:12 AM
Thanks for the explanation of what I have tried to do in my article - you're bang on.

Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: vonbath on October 30, 2015, 05:17:42 AM
Iolo Morganwg died in 1826 at the age of 79, so it would have been almost impossible for him to concoct a full biography of Akhenaten (book of Manuscripts) before he died. Only preliminary details of Amarna, Akhnaten’s capital city, were mapped by Napoleon's corps de savants in their Description de l'Égypte which was published between 1821 and 1830, and Akhenaten’s tomb was not discovered until the 1890s.

George Smith discovered the cuneiform tablet of Gilgamesh (Hurmanetar story in the book of Gleanings) in 1872, so Morganwg couldn’t have got his hands on this either.

Details of Hapu (book of Manuscripts) were published with the discovery of his tomb in 1906. I could go on...

I suspect Iolo Morganwg’s name has been connected with the Kolbrin because (1) a chapter entitled ‘Gorsedd’ appears in the Britain Book; (2) ‘Kolbrin’ is a variant spelling of ‘Coelbren’, which Morganwyg claimed to have revived; (3) Morganwg has been accused of inventing the Coelbren language.

Morganwg was certainly capable of forging Druid triads, the poetic style that make up the Gorsedd chapter; however, the historians Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett are adamant that the Coelbren alphabet is authentic and that Morganwg didn’t invent it. They have this to say:

AUTHENTICITY OF THE WELSH COELBREN ALPHABET

For over 200 years now the Coelbren alphabet has been ridiculed, scoffed at and targeted as an outright forgery.

Historically speaking, there seems to be deep-rooted animosity attributed to this language which is well beyond my scope of research here. Thus I will leave for others to debate as to the reasons why. That being said, two British History researchers Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett have broken new ground and declared the Coelbren Alphabet to be authentic.

“The ciphers of the [ancient Coelbren] Alphabet were preserved by Llewellyn Sion of Glamorgan around AD 1540 - 1560. Therefore it is known which cipher means which modern letter of our present Alphabet...The Elucidator [see image to the right] is a frame made of sticks, some three sided, others squared, on the flat surface of which were carved the Bardic aphorisms. Three sided ones contained a complete triad.”
Wilson and Blackett go on to say:

[This] “Alphabet is identically described, and matching British records, in the Nag Hamadi documents of the Gnostic church that were buried before AD 400 and discovered in 1945. Large numbers of [Welsh] mediaeval poets mentioned and described the ancient British Alphabet, starting with Daffydd ap Gwilym died AD 1367 and going onto around AD 1475.

Rhys Goch of Oswestry wrote a poem lampooning this Coelbren Alphabet in AD 1582. Therefore allegations that this ancient British Alphabet is a fake that was forged around AD 1800 are ludicrous.”

The Coelbren Alphabet lies scattered all along our ancient ancestral migration trails. A 30-foot (10metres) long shroud was found wrapped around a mummy in Egypt and this Zagreb shroud in plastered with Coelbren. The two Copper Scrolls found at Qumran are inscribed in Coelbren. The Ten Tribes of Israel were known to the Assyrian Emperors as the Khumry around 740-700 BC. They had the Ark with them after King Jehoash removed it from Jerusalem in circa 790 BC.

There are readable Coelbren inscriptions scattered through Turkey marking the route of our ancestors from western Armenia from 687 BC to c 650 BC. The Greeks called these Khumry as the “Kimmeroi”. A major Coelbren inscribed stone was found on the island of Lemnos in1876 which describes the fleets gathering there to sail to the great green island out in the western Ocean -Britain in the Atlantic – exactly as our Histories state. In short we can now read these “indecipherable” texts all along our Historical ancestral migration trail.

The Coelbren Alphabet is the Alphabet described by Julius Caesar around 55 BC. It exists on many ancient stones in Britain, notably the stone of King Gorddwfyn the Exile of around AD 200, and others in Wales,England and Scotland. Dafydd ap Gwilym (died AD 1367) mention it,as did six other known bards between AD 1420 to 1480. A north Wales Bard-Rhys Goch of Oswestry- wrote a whole poem lampooning this South Wales preserved Alphabet in1582. The fact is that there are some 14,000 Etruscan inscriptions in Italy and a handful in ancient Rhaetia (Switzerland), and everyone attempted so far reads out correctly using the Coelbren Alphabet and the Khumric Language.


Admin Edit: The source for the quote above may be found here: https://www.facebook.com/AlanWilsonandBaramBlackett/posts/372252282903127:0 (https://www.facebook.com/AlanWilsonandBaramBlackett/posts/372252282903127:0)

Here are a few pics used by Wilson/Blackett to illustrate their argument:

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/941733_339495936178762_1551490966_n.jpg?oh=8ed8a8fccefa1455d21675a561048bdf&oe=56CC3C16)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1150266_372252122903143_471170943_n.jpg?oh=420934c6ae965cf6042aa8f9c1feaab4&oe=56B5A30E&__gda__=1455540349_1e955b9d305e0642e7f69a187ccf7430)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/644266_372252266236462_574331093_n.jpg?oh=39ee63195e2b56a795749bb3cfdd1612&oe=56B4AAB6&__gda__=1455616343_32f33bf9a5fc96569f5dffde581da263)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/1237086_384940071634348_1079695581_n.jpg?oh=6d68f4924f0a694f7829ba2379e77ac1&oe=56B7CFC1)

Whether you agree with Wilson/Blackett's version of ancient history or not, it's difficult to argue with their findings.
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: vonbath on October 30, 2015, 10:43:47 AM
I attach a link to an article about the finding of an over-sized skull and rib-cage - both of which are apparently on show to the public - since my pic of Professor Vekua doesn't seem to have done the trick.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2063486/Alien-skull-Peru-Mystery-giant-headed-mummy-city-Andahuaylillas.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2063486/Alien-skull-Peru-Mystery-giant-headed-mummy-city-Andahuaylillas.html)
Title: Re: "Guide to the Kolbrin" by Yvonne Whiteman
Post by: Len on October 30, 2015, 03:55:36 PM
Yvonne, I have edited your post on Iolo Morganwg and the Coelbren Alphabet to include the source web link for the quote you shared.

The subject of the Coelbren Alphabet is a large one, and deserves its own dedicated discussion thread, which is why I have taken yours and Manu's posts on the topic and placed them here: http://culdiantrust.org/culdianforums/index.php?topic=299.0 (http://culdiantrust.org/culdianforums/index.php?topic=299.0)

Further discussion on the Coelbren Alphabet in its relation to the Kolbrin or Iolo Morganwg should be replied to there, unless it is directly pertinent to Yvonne's article.