Author Topic: Maori Tradition  (Read 44179 times)

November 04, 2013, 01:17:19 PMReply #45

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2013, 01:17:19 PM »
The Saga of Ancient Hebrew Explorers

Interestingly, ancient Maori traditions relate that since antiquity the Maoris have observed ceremonial and dietary laws very similar to those of the ancient Hebrews. They even kept the seventh day "Sabbath" as a day of rest! Also, every 7 times 7 years -- or 49 years -- they observed a Jubilee Year similar to that of the ancient Hebrews." These similarities simply cannot be explained away as "mere coincidence"! The Maoris, like the Hebrews, even had a "sacred month" given over to Harvest thanksgiving, corresponding to the Hebrew month of Tishri and the Festival of Tabernacles.

http://hope-of-israel.org/hebinusa.htm

Very interesting the fact that these traditions were even  observed here in the first place, as there is a lot of protocol regarding priestly knowledge for such observances to be observed properly, giving a clue to the people that my ancestors possibly were. The knowledge of such observances also has connections and relevance to aspects of the kabbalah system :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(biblical)
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

November 04, 2013, 11:52:04 PMReply #46

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2013, 11:52:04 PM »
I think its getting a bit beyond the bounds of reality to imagine that the Maori are Hebrew. Genetically, Maori are from Taiwan.
Perhaps any resemblance to Hebrew tradition is either coincidental, or taken from NZ's first inhabitants, who were insular Kelts that still had Israelite traditions.
Hebrew dietary law forbids the eating of human flesh, swine, and shellfish.
Maori show none of the physical traits of Hebrew descended peoples.
I could go on, but its quite boring as I've been down this track many times before with Maori, and other groups who want to lay claim to Hebrew Descent.
I did wonder if soon this wouldn't come up.
A bit disappointing really.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 11:57:35 PM by Enkisfreind »

November 05, 2013, 02:54:22 AMReply #47

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2013, 02:54:22 AM »
I am sorry you are disappointed sha,ul, as for me i am excited, to learn more about my ancestors, because where ever the traditions came from, they are still the traditions of my ancestors, which tells me a great deal about them, the more i learn about them the more i learn about myself, which as a seeker is my ultimate quest, in that quest i have the need to discover my roots, my whakapapa, do you know how frustrating it is to have so many conflicting accounts of history, some say Maori are from Taiwan some say Iran, some say Scotland, some say India , some say American Indians, some say south Americas, some the land of the turtle, some say Aryan others Egypt and on and on it goes.

Please forgive me if my search for my roots and my quest to reveal them is quite boring to you.

I can not help what my ancestors where, and i am not to blame if they had the same traditions as your ancestors, but it appears that some of your ancestors traditions where not exclusively theirs. It is quite possible our ancestors had a common origin

Maori show none of the physical traits of Hebrew descended peoples.

Mr. R. J. Casey states that the ancestors of the Polynesians, in the dim past, came from Ur in Chaldea, the land of the two rivers, the Euphrates and the Tigris.1 That there is some link of connection between the Maori and Hebrew and Semitic race is suggested by the Jewish features seen in some of the Maoris. Taiaroa of Otakou, for instance, had a striking Jewish cast of features. Many of the Maori customs resemble Jewish practices. The law of utu, satisfaction or payment for an injury, “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” seems to compare with ancient Jewish traditions. Tapu, sacred, set apart or under restriction, is another resemblance.

Certain of the Maori customs remind one of the marriage customs described in the Old Testament. A comparison of the Jewish ceremonial law, as embodied in the Old Testament Scriptures, with the customs of the Maori people, presents many points of agreement.

The Rev. R. Taylor mentions some of the resemblances: “the younger brother taking his elder brother's widow as a wife. The nearest male relation marrying the widow of the deceased husband who had no brother living, as Obed married Ruth; the elder brother caring for his sister as his right; the touching of food; God present in the whirlwind; all unclean who touched a corpse; the custom of betrothing infants, and the weeping and lamentation over the death of a friend.”

Watkin writes in his Journal, “When a New Zealander dies his wife is taken by his brother.” Many other resemblances could be mentioned. The Rev. Charles Creed mentions that a priest “is particularly interested in Christianity and compares the sacred history with their own traditions, remarking on the traditional events which seem analogous to those in the sacred volume.”

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-PybMaor-t1-body-d2.html

A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

November 05, 2013, 10:38:39 AMReply #48

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2013, 10:38:39 AM »
Kia ora Ra,
Mate, relly, its not that your search for your roots is boring to me, but we Jews are asailed almost it seems, by different groups claiming Hebrew descent, or saying that "they" are the "real" Jews, or that todays Jews, & Israelites, are not the "real one's". You'd be gobsmacked, of you knew, as I do from experience, how many times over a year I have to listen to somebody bang their gong abut theirs, or somebody else theory on the matter.
Now, if the Maori indeed have picked up some Hebrew tradition, it seems obvious to me that they picked it up while living under the mana of the Waitaha. And retained some of what they had picked up after they had ethnicly cleansed them from New Zealand.
As for your frustration, I can understand it bro, and if there is any way I can help, I will do my earnest best to do that for you.
But we Jews get a bit tired of others trying to jump into our Waka, when they have no real claim to their seat. We don't mind sharing, but you have to become one of us first, so to speak, by conversion. Not that I know why anybody would want to do that, the Jewish path is demanding and takes a lot of personal sacrifice, and there are much easier roads one can take, with a lot less baggage attached to it.
The person who converts, and I have seen this, is treated like one of the family, but most often after a couple of years, they fall away. Which is why Rabbi's wil turn a prospective convert away three times before accepting them for conversion courses. Its a lot of work to teach somebody the halacha ,the way of life and traditions , only to have them fall away, as well as the concern for the person involved, that they will for the rest of their lives have knowledge that they cannot unlearn, and this could be a negative thing as far as future bad conscience goes.
I would gibe a longer reply , but I have to split for work.
Love and light to you bro, and may the Supreme Spirit, guide you in your search.
Shalom.

November 05, 2013, 01:13:21 PMReply #49

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2013, 01:13:21 PM »
Thank you sha'ul, Much Appreciated, I must say that the Supreme Spirit has guided well so far :)

Respectfully my brother, you are way out of your depth regarding Maori History and the source of our traditions, this is evident in the ignorance shown in some of the statements that you have made regarding maori, what I have revealed on this thread is just the tip of the ice berg.

A lot of the traditions similar to Jews came from the Maori lost homeland of Hawaki, sure some came from Waitaha, and like I have provided info on before, Waitaha were made up of many people.

I think you fail to see the significance of what I have provided for all to see, I do not seek your approval to be who I am, the knowledge and tradition of my ancestors is mine by birthright, just like your knowledge and traditions is yours by birthright.

I can understand why my line of thinking would be such a threat to Jews, good gosh we cant have an other group of people claiming the same source as ours, way easier to throw up the entrenched defence for other groups claiming decent, yet this is a important point I would like to make, I am not claiming decent from Jews or Hebrews, I am claiming that its very possible that (Maori)traditions come from the same source(a significant difference), all I have to claim and learn is everything Maori, if that happens to include traditions and knowledge that one group of people thought was exclusively theirs, then so be it, it is what it is.

I almost feel like in following my roots, reminds me of the eternal well/Spring of David, the deeper I go, the closer I get to the source, the fresher the water taste, the more my spirit is refreshed.

There are many more aspect of my research that will reveal a lot regarding many subjects of interest , I look forward to sharing more in due time.

Shalom sha'ul

May the force be with you!

:)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 04:08:21 PM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

November 06, 2013, 01:43:29 AMReply #50

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2013, 01:43:29 AM »
Ra, its not a threat, I'm not threatened, just tired of hearing the beat of this same drum, and not only from you.
I don't claim to be any great sage on Maori tradition, which is not my spiritual path, so I'm not as you say, out of my depths, as I'm not trying to teach you about the origins of your people.
Maori need to face up to what they did to the Waitaha, and other groups that were here before them, like some kind of repentance, or admission of the treachery committed, against those who even according to your own legend, took your ancestors under their wing.
That is, in my opinion, why Maori feel so disenfranchised, because as a whole, they have invented a lot of their history, borrowed some from others, and swept probably the most important aspects under the carpet out of shame,  with help from the NZ government of course.
You know what I'm talking about.
You are the first brave Maori I have met, who is honest and  seeking the "real" truth of the past, but in what you will find, you may also find guilt and shame, never dealt  with, that hangs about your peoples necks like a stone.
A lot of Pakeha sense this guilt in the Maori national spirit, but misinterpret it as an untrustworthy character trait, which is blatantly wrong, as there are, and have always been, many trustworthy and honourable Maori.
You being one ehoa.
This is something I've wanted to put forward, it comes from the heart, and is supposed to get you thinking about the Karma Maori have brought upon themselves, for what they did, and their inability to face up to the guilt, and be released from the national shame , and karmic cycle, that still bedevils them today, as we can see in the crime stats, family violence stats, and poverty stats.
I respect you, and I wish you all G-d speed, in finding that which you seek.
Written with love, respect.

November 06, 2013, 02:25:05 AMReply #51

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2013, 02:25:05 AM »
Hi Ra,
Where is the comment you posted regarding somebodies theory that the current Jewish inhabitants of Israel, are not really genetically related to the ancient Hebrew ?
It was this comment, that got me so fired up in the first place.
Hence my comment about being bored with the topic, and tired of hearing the same old drum beating.
My comments kind of look out of context now that the post is no longer there.

Love and light.

November 07, 2013, 02:49:02 AMReply #52

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2013, 02:49:02 AM »
Hi Ra,
Where is the comment you posted regarding somebodies theory that the current Jewish inhabitants of Israel, are not really genetically related to the ancient Hebrew ?
It was this comment, that got me so fired up in the first place.
Hence my comment about being bored with the topic, and tired of hearing the same old drum beating.
My comments kind of look out of context now that the post is no longer there.

Love and light.

Hi friend, It only looks out of context because the comment and link you are referring too, is on a other thread :)

http://culdiantrust.org/culdianforums/index.php?topic=158.0

I understand sha'ul, and I hold nothing personally, thanks for sharing your knowledge and being you

Love and Light
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

March 15, 2015, 03:29:07 AMReply #53

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2015, 03:29:07 AM »

Interesting relationships between the Babylonian and Maori moon god


With regard to the land of Uru, from which the party of migrants came eastward to the hot land of Irihia, we can locate but one region of that name if we assume that Irihia is the Vrihia of ancient days. In the southern part of Sumeria, near the mouth of the Euphrates river, as then situated, existed about 2800 B.C. the flourishing state of Uru, known as Ur of the Chaldees to readers of the Scriptures. The correct form of this name is Uru, as given in Conder's “Rise of Man.” Of this place the patron deity was Sin, the personified form of the moon, a name that calls to mind Sina, the widely known moon goddess of Polynesia. She is known as Hina to the Maori of New Zealand, where, as in ancient Egypt, the moon goddess is the patron deity of women, presiding over childbirth and the art of weaving.

The Hawaiian Polynesians have preserved a tradition of a land or region called Ulu-nui that lay adjacent to the old home of their ancestors. In our New Zealand dialect this name would appear as Uru-nui (Great Uru). It is not my intention to proclaim that the homeland of the Maori, that is to say of the Polynesian race, has been located, I merely draw attention to these interesting traditions and other data, and await further evidence. When we come to examine the institutions, myths, beliefs, concepts and ritual of the Maori, we shall find many analogies with those of southern Asia.

http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document//Volume_32_1923/Volume_32,_No._125/Origin_of_the_Maori._The_hidden_homeland_of_the_Maori,_and_its_probable_location,_by_Elsdon_Best,_p_10-20/p1
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 01:19:42 AM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

March 17, 2015, 09:21:11 PMReply #54

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2015, 09:21:11 PM »
I think the moon is a under rated factor that can make a big difference in our everyday life, just by being aware of some of the principles associated with the moon and how it effects our lives. Personally within my own life and family I have introduced a Technology free day, approximately every 7 days in relation to the moon phases, these days are days we try within reason to be self efficient and not use power tools such as computers and electrical devices etc, it serves multiple purposes, 1 creates a awareness of the moon and its cycles a good chance to study cause and effect, 2, prepares our family for natural disasters, return of destroyer etc, by keeping us prepared and self efficient, and 3 its a good way to get my children off their devices, and have found we do a lot more things as a family on these days, like playing monopoly going for walks etc.

Some of the traditions relating to the moon as practiced by Waitaha

'Some follow the Sun, but our lives are tied to the Tides of the Moon'

We wait upon the tides. The tides within us and the tides outside. We wait upon Marama; we wait upon the Moon. we count our lives in nights while others count theirs in days, for we follow the track of the Moon not the track of the Sun. We move with Marama not Te Ra.

The Tides of Life flow from marama. He reaches out from the heavens to touch the seas to make them rise and fall. he urges the long rivers to flow across the vastness of the two oceans and calls for the sap to rise within the tall trees of the forests.

And the tides within us ebb and flow. the seed tides of women and men surge to the power of Marama. The fullness of the Moon release great energy and we plant and build, fish and hunt, learn and teach and think and act as at no other time. And when he wanes we draw into ourselves to plan the things we will accomplish in the returning light.

Song of Waitaha
The Historys of a Nation
pg 67

« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 01:21:05 AM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

March 18, 2015, 04:42:34 AMReply #55

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2015, 04:42:34 AM »
Found some common themes in regards to the whirlpool and the Great River. How common are these Whirlpools?

We sailed with a large company towards the West and had nothing to fear, except the whirlpool, for the Red Men with us knew the way of the waters. For long days we saw only the sea, and the landsighting birds all came back.

We went out through the mouth of the sea into the sea of the Great River. Past the lands of white copper to the Place of Painted Men, where we drew up the ship and staked them.

Chapter Twelve
(The Rolls of Record -6)
verse 11 - 12
The book of the sons of fire
Kolbrin

The mention of the whirlpool is of interest to me as it resonates with the waitaha 'octopus', this too was a thing to be feared.

Long Tentacles Reach Across the Ocean

'And now we come to the dreaded place, the waters of the Octopus'

We tend the sail and enjoy the calmer waters of the dolphin. And we think ahead to the dangers of the trial. Three times we will close in the lair of the Octopus before our journey is done. Te Rangihouhia feels the song of the sea running through the great steering oar and looks to the carved taurapa and sees we near our first encounter with the long tentacles that seek to drag us to the deeps. Constantly scanning the waters he searches for Muturangi, the keeper of the thirty six houses of the heavens. He lives on the horizons and the Octopus is his Mokai, his chosen one. The lair of the Octopus is Te Wheke o Muturangi, 'the end of the sky' where the waters rise in exultation to greet the stars. It is an awesome place.

The Octopus is born of mighty parents; two powerful rivers, ancient and irresistible tides that meet and mate to create a terrifying whirlpool with eight arms radiating out as far as the eye can see. It is not a creature. It is a place of turmoil where the great currents contend to bring disaster to the unwary.

Song of Waitaha
Traditions of a Nation
pg 75


A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

April 02, 2015, 12:47:26 AMReply #56

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2015, 12:47:26 AM »
Some interesting similarity's, again demonstrating the Sumerian connection to new Zealand.

Of interest is also the mention of the serpent and eagle worship, which is mentioned several times in the kolbrin.

URU-The Lost Civilisation of Australia
Excerpts From The Book-Chapter 12
Gods Of The South-Culture Founders Of The Stone-Age



The Sun-Worship Serpent and Eagle altars of Australia [ie Nim and I-na] parallel others in Melanesia also associated with Sun-Worship. In all ancient Sun-Worship religions the Eagle was the messenger of the Sun God, and so it was also with the Uruans. The Serpent and Eagle Sun-Worship symbolism is found across New Guinea in one form or another. In Papua New Guinea a giant-size stone altar carved in the form of a snake is reminiscent of others in the Shouten Islands, Biem area, where the natives worship a Sun-God in the form of a snake called by them ‘Uruan’.

http://www.rexgilroy.com/uru_chapter12.html

Here to is a other great link, connecting ancient maori history to India and the sumerian city of Ur.

SOME ADDITIONAL DATA THEREON, CULLED FROM TRADITIONS PRESERVED BY THE TAKITUMU TRIBES OF NEW ZEALAND

http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document/Volume_36_1927/Volume_36%2C_No._144/Irihia._The_homeland_of_the_Polynesians._Some_additional_data..._by_Elsdon_Best%2C_p_330-362?action=null

« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 01:16:11 AM by Ra »
A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

April 03, 2015, 02:46:06 AMReply #57

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2015, 02:46:06 AM »
Quote
It is not my intention to proclaim that the homeland of the Maori, that is to say of the Polynesian race, has been located, I merely draw attention to these interesting traditions and other data, and await further evidence.

All very interesting stuff here Ra.  Had not heard any of this, so all very new.  Indeed, I await further evidence with interest.

Thank you for these posts.

April 03, 2015, 11:18:25 PMReply #58

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2015, 11:18:25 PM »
Quote
It is not my intention to proclaim that the homeland of the Maori, that is to say of the Polynesian race, has been located, I merely draw attention to these interesting traditions and other data, and await further evidence.

All very interesting stuff here Ra.  Had not heard any of this, so all very new.  Indeed, I await further evidence with interest.

Thank you for these posts.

Your welcome lance and Hi.

That paper was written in 1923, you would think somebody would have picked up this line of research and run with it, there is a lot of evidence out there, also a lot that is circumstantial, one just has to know where to look  ;)

Now this is a interesting link, a women who claims her tribe came from Iran, just around the corner to ancient Babylon, but here before the arrival of the 7 waka.

http://www.elocal.co.nz/View_Article~Id~1108~title~Changing_Our_NZ_History._DNA_to_Rock_the_Nation_Part_2.html

According to Monica, there are approximately 2,000 Ngati Hotu left, although there has been speculation that they were an extinct race - which Monica laughs at. “There are 800 in our whanau. When the seven warrior waka arrived in New Zealand, my people were here. Our history says that our people first came to Aotearoa a long time back from what is now called Iran


A warrior is a man responding gleefully to the stern demands of manhood, even as a mother is a woman lovingly responding to the demands of motherhood. The two are akin, for what motherhood is to a woman war is to a man.

Kolbrin

April 03, 2015, 11:35:49 PMReply #59

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Re: Maori Tradition
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2015, 11:35:49 PM »
Hi to you and yours, my friend.  I do hope you and the family are all well.

There is indeed a lot of diverse evidence out there purporting the origins of Maori.  There are those of my own who say we come from South America via Easter Island and then downward to New Zealand.  This, though, could quite easily relate itself into your last four posts as I am sure movements of Maori were pretty widespread and, apparently, not at all uncommon.

An interesting story Monica has related.  Very similar to the story my brother's ex partner relates regarding her Mori ori whakapapa.